Submitted: Mon, Dec 01, 2003 9:26 am

Subject:

Dear Peniel
 I have almost finished reading a copy your book "oh My God!..." and would like to say thanks for persevering and getting it out so it may wind up in the hands of those who need it.
  The second reason I am writing is that I have been moved by what I found in the book to contact you in order to discover if the guidance I need is somehow linked to you. I have been a "seeker" for some time now. I have read much and thought about what I have read. I had several "experiences" in the past (at a time when I was much less informed) and didn't quite know how to take them (in retrospect, I may have totally mis-understood and mis-interpreted and made many errors stemming from that sequence of events). For some time I "felt" I was making much progress, then slowly at first then more rapidly "fell" so far I can't "feel" (what I believe you would call God's Love’) much anymore. I have been extremely frustrated and at a lost on how to ( at least) "get back to where I was" and continue the journey forward.
  I am not sure what to expect from you, but "the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step..." and I feel the journey is so important that all possible (prudent) steps should be taken.
 Where does this go from here? Do you have any words of "wisdom" or advice for me specifically at this stage of the journey? I feel there may be a chance that you have.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.

David

Submitted: Mon, Dec 01, 2003 7:33 pm

Subject:

David,
Thank you for responding... so few take me up on the opportunity I offer to any and all whom read the books.
Please bear with me here... In order to "discuss" spiritual matters with mere words sometimes requires many words soas I do not loose the essence of what I wish to convey.
Let me first comment on each item you said:
 I have almost finished reading a copy your  book "oh My God!..." and would like to say thanks for persevering and getting it out so it may wind up in the hands of those who need it.
You're most welcome.

  The second reason I am writing is that I have been moved by what I found in the book to contact you in order to discover if the guidance I need is somehow linked to you.
I appreciate that, this "movement" you speak of is quite common among those who read and get "touched" by the book.
 I have been a "seeker" for some time now. I have read much and thought about what I have read. I had several "experiences" in the past (at a time when I was much less informed) and didn't quite know how to take them
I understand. The book in a few places "hints" at some "experiences" that I  had, possibly similar to yours.
 (in retrospect, I may have totally mis-understood and mis-interpreted and  made many errors stemming from that sequence of events).
God, I could write several books on this one statement of yours from my own past! And, this statement from you is also paramount as a sign that you are perhaps truly "called" instead of merely being a casual "seeker". In my many years of teaching others (what I had been taught) and "trying to ram into others heads" what I had been taught, I learned that only those truly "called" are "able" to pursue deeper truths. Many are curious, but few (in my experience) have truly been able to benefit from "further" assistance after considering what was already presented in the first book. Your statement above gives me hope that you might just be a "called" seeker, as I was many years ago. We shall soon see...
For some time I "felt" I was making much progress, then slowly at first then more rapidly "fell" so far I can't "feel" (what I believe you would call God's Love' ) much anymore. I have been extremely frustrated and at a lost on how to ( at least) "get back to where I was" and continue the journey forward.
Perhaps you are experiencing what in the spiritual journey we call an aridity. I have studied the lives of the saints passed and have found many occurrences in their lives that parallel what you describe here. Indeed, in my own experiences there were several "aridities" (meaning dry-times, spiritually) where I felt almost "nothing" for years. It was as if my ability to "feel" emotions had somehow gradually slipped away until I no longer could even force myself to "feel" anything! No love, no joy, no envy, no hatred, no anger... nuthin'! (Oh, I still had physical feelings like heat, cold, pain, etc. - but no "Emotional feelings.") This is far worse that feeling strong negative emotions, for it dehumanizes you until you think that you are just a robot or a machine going through the motions of living, but, only in memory are the truly important parts of your life now kept. I have been married for 27 years and have a 21 year old daughter (now) and each of these dry-spells happened in my marriage and with a young daughter (that I could not at that time enjoy - pure hell!) I would have gladly traded away years of my life, if I could have gotten out of those arid times. Alas, this is something that ALL TRUE deeply spiritual people MUST go through at some time or another. It is a time of "purification" and God Himself allows and evidently demands it. Not all people go through aridities, but every "deeply religious or spiritual" person I have ever studied or know has indeed experienced these dry-times. The worst part of these aridities is EXACTLY what you describe, you feel that God has moved far from you, and you can no longer "feel" His presence (something for those of us whom have experienced a "closeness" with God, that is excruciating agony to be removed from!) If you think this is what you might be experiencing, rejoice, it does not last forever and is a great sign of God's Love to be allowed to take such a sever test of faith that is reserved for the few! If you do not feel this is what you are experiencing, we may need to clarify what you are going through... either way, I suspect we will talk more about this after your decision. And... this is a perfect example of just WHY it is so helpful to have a guide on this spiritual journey, especially one whom has been where you are yet to go. I would suggest that you consider that on the path to spiritual perfection (if Dad has chosen this for you) you must pass through: "Purgation", "Illumination" and then "Union." Typically, aridities happen most commonly in "Purgation" and occasionally in "Illumination". If this touches a chord in you, we should discuss this path further.
  I am not sure what to expect from you, but "the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step..." and I feel the journey is so important that all possible (prudent) steps should be taken.
Wisely said! NOTHING, in this life or the next, is more important than the response we give when Dad so softly calls us! Also, As I explain in the book, if you are sincere about a devout and deep spiritual life, it is very important to find some guide to assist you over the stumbling blocks and traps and snares that assuredly will be placed in your way of advancement. (I would love to be this guide for you, if you find me capable and acceptable to you, and if I find the same in you.) If not me, then at least do not find someone whom merely tickles you ears and says the things you want to hear, but rather, find someone whom you can trust. The best way to do that is to test that person. Give them some tests and see if their words (in your best judgment) are wisdom or just gobbeldy-gook. A truly wise man, called by God to assist and teach others will never "mind" being tested, but rather would encourage you to test them. Also, even if you are in an aridity now, PRAY about it. If God refuses to answer you, find the wisest person you know and open you heart to them and ask for their opinion. See if they think the answers from your "proposed" guide are helpful and show insight and wisdom. I have always stood on the astounding truths and benefits of what Dad has given to me to teach (like what is in the book you read.)  Where does this go from here? Do you have any words of "wisdom" or advice for me specifically at this stage of the journey?
1.) Read, and reread what I have answered in here
2.) Think carefully about my answers, and if they show any insight into your situation
3.) Finish reading "OMGAYTTM" so that we have a mutual ground for further discussion and so that I know at least what you have been shown (via that book)
4.) Ask any further questions you wish to at this time (either out of curiosity, or as a test of my worthiness to be a possible guide for you in your spiritual journey, or both)
5.) Decide or determine any discussion areas you might want to further converse about (for example, something from the book that you didn't "get" or that you might want expanded or clarified)
6.) Decide if the "typing" via e-mails like we are doing is how you want to continue (for now) or if you would prefer to speak voice to voice (my cost, your convenience, preferably evenings after 7pm CST or anytime on weekends.) Just let me know and we'll continue in your preference.
7.) Pray about all of this, especially my "guidance" (it doesn't matter if Dad answers you directly or not... you WILL get an answer very soon and you will probably be surprised at where the answer comes from, and how it gets presented to you- it almost always happens this way - you'll see!)
8.) If you feel that it would be helpful (for example, if you don't currently trust your own judgment), get someone whom you do trust to read at least this response from me, and any further "testing" that you ask of me and get their opinion. If possible, have them read some of the book (if they are willing) but understand that this book only "touches" the few! Most say, "Yeah, that is kinda interesting..." but they are not "called" by what is in it (as you may have been.)
9.) If you are interested in further knowing about me, ask and I will send you some other stuff I have written (poems, books, workshops, seminars, etc.)
10.) Sleep on all of this, then pray again. Watch for the answer to your prayer and I suspect in a few days it will come from that unexpected source. Perhaps the fact that I described how your answer was going to come to you, after you receive it, will assist you in accepting me as you guide (if we get to that point.) In considering me as a possible guide, I ask that you give me a fair trial based on the book you have already read, and any answers here and that you shall soon ask of me. Think if I am the kind of person I portray in the book, is that the kind of person you could trust as a guide into your further spiritual journey? And, for my initial test of sincerity for you: For now just look at the questions at the end of Chapter 12 and think about them (don't start answering them just yet, just look them over and think about them some...) We will ask more of you later, if you are still willing
I feel there may be a chance that you have.
I know that I have - if we find each other mutually agreeable to it, and until we decide to suspend / stop.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
It was a true pleasure - I mean that! This is exactly why God put me here on earth, "To teach others the Truth" and NOTHING gives me greater pleasure, satisfaction, or benefit in God's scales than doing what He put me here to do - the opportunity that you may well open up for me with you!
May Day put you eternally in His favor and swiftly answer your question as to my "guide" status, so that we can get on with where HE WANTS YOU TO GO FROM HERE! ;) Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Wed, Dec 03, 2003 11:01 am

Subject: Beginnings

Dear Peniel,

Thanks for responding to my initiative. I have been "around the block" in life  enough to be aware that not all that glitters is gold, but it wasn't very much any concern about the outright commercialization of many "New Age/spiritual Gurus" that gave me pause ( for from your book, I had no doubt you are who you purport to be), but rather a realization that with so many seeking help, could there really be an opportunity to be treated as more than just another contact from the public.

So, I am grateful for this opportunity.   I have finished the book and have again considered the questions posed there in. As for needing to decide if you can be a catalyst to move me forward on the journey, I never really had to think twice about it. It is a result of the words which I read that I know somewhat/a little of who you are -and realize the potential help for me on my journey. I also realize that it may turn out that, for whatever reason, our meeting on the pathway may or may not be other than a brief encounter - but yet, there is a feeling in me of hope awakening. In reading your book and to some varying degree since, I have found brief moments of "that feeling" or state of being, which I had previously felt, so to me, this is an indication of this being the right direction. I have also been wishing to receive more guidance -and the "stumbling onto" this book and resultant contact with you seems "fortuitous", to say the least.

Of course, I realize it is just as important  for you to decide - not whether you are able, but whether it is the "correct" thing for you to "walk a little(?) with me" or not.

I appreciate your mentioning of phone contact if you decide to proceed with me, but I am a person who must often take time "digesting" things - one who often realizes he is not "quick on his feet" and the opportunity to  read and re-read the printed word, as well as working and re-working the expression of my thoughts (at least to me) seems "wiser" -and perhaps "safer"(?) for now -and yet if this makes too much of a demand on your time and the phone would be more convenient for you -I will defer to that method of communication.

What is next ? Do I inquire what you would ask of me?

You asked if I had any questions for you -I have one -which I realize may be one which should not be asked at this time and may need much "leading up to". But it is the predominant question in my mind as we consider a beginning and may help you see who I am more clearly.

It seems more than not to me that through the pages of your book, you wish the reader to see "God" primarily as the traditional Christian "God of Love"  and the love-relationship which you demonstrate with "Him" seems the all-encompassing end-all of being. I do not dispute this at all, but behind this do you see a more complex sytem of relationship(s) -what I mean is that in the thoughts of others God may have created more "intervening" levels of personhood between the humanly manifesting aspect of "us" and the ultimate "Himself". Well -I realize this question may have little or no absolute relevence or its relevency may depend on the timeliness of its being posed, but in all honesty -it does run through my mind. As this shows, I have been concerned with "thinking" much of my life and even as I strive to increase the components of being which lie beyong "logic", it remains a large part of who I have been.

I look forward to reading your thoughts at this stage of our contact.

Dave

Submitted

Subject:

David,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I understand that if a person both read and "got" what was in the OMGAYTTM book, there should be little doubt regarding me, my disposition, my relationship with Dad, and my eagerness and willingness to assist others (especially others whom are now in the same boat I found myself in 20 years ago - seeking deeper spirituality in my life, wanting to love and serve God better, yet unsure how to proceed and fearful (and rightly so) that I might actually do more harm than good to myself and possibly others...
There are many whom have read the words, and not "got" what was said, so I usually proceed with caution in the beginning with any seeker soas not to scare them away nor to build up any false hopes they might start out with. I can see from your level of understanding that I can dispense with much of the cautionary language I usually begin with and rather get beyond the milk to some food of greater substance with you.
As usual, let me begin by responding to some of your statements...
You said: "I also realize that it may turn out that, for whatever reason, our meeting on the pathway may or may not be other than a brief encounter - but yet, there is a feeling in me of hope awakening."
Typically, when God brings someone to me to assist, it usually takes a few months of interaction to get them either back on their path, or, on the path they should be on but never were. My role is almost always the same with each seeker, a "guide". An answerer of questions, an asker of questions, a sounding board for new ideas, a signpost, a pointer, a proposer of alternatives, a designer of alternatives, etc.
I use whatever methods I feel best to assist each seeker at that time, and I do not use the same methods with all (for each is unique in need and ability.) Many times, I take different individuals down very similar paths, and use very similar methods at certain stages, for I have found these methods both productive (the key) and least-painful (this would require an entire book to explain, but the short version is that the reason YOU are not where you should be is because YOU are unwilling or unable to do one or more of the following: 1.) Know where you are now; 2.) Know where you are supposed to be now; or 3.) Know which direction and how far the above 2 positions are from each other.)
This "lack of knowledge" is not your fault, but it is your responsibility. This is precisely where I can be best utilized is in assisting you to see: where you are now, where you should be instead, and how to get from here to there. (A Guide.)
The reason this process usually takes so long (a few months, typically) is that we create barriers around ourselves to protect us from others, and these barriers, while effective in their original purpose, also limit our vision of both where we are and how to get where we believe we should be. I have successfully guided many seekers before (over a hundred) in varying degrees of involvement based on their need and desire, and I feel confident that I "can" guide you. "Can" is the key, the lock is "will" I? This is a question that you and I together must decide. We shall discuss this more as time progresses.
You said: "In reading your book and to some varying degree since, I have found brief moments of "that feeling" or state of being, which I had previously felt, so to me, this is an indication of this being the right direction. I have also been wishing to receive more guidance -and the "stumbling onto" this book and resultant contact with you seems "fortuitous", to say the least."
This also is exciting for me to hear! Another sign to me of your sincerity and a feeling of "where you are" at this point in your spiritual life."  You may have remembered in the book I said that one good way to determine if we are going in the right direction is to see if this "feeling" seems to point us in a particular direction, for if God wants us to go there He will surely give us this "fulfillment" feeling as a sure sign that this is the way He wishes us to proceed, here and now.
I don't want to go too far or deep at this point, but let's wade into spiritual waters a little:
You combination of statements also reveals much to me: the "feeling", your desire for "guidance", your "stumbling onto" the book, and your "reception" and absorption of parts of what is in the book. This "feeling" you are referring to is most likely what I looSEly call "fulfillment". It is an emotional state that few people ever really experience, for it truly only comes from "full - filling" of what we as human beings are destined to and for: "standing in the presence of God and experiencing 'Him' just as He truly is." This is actually what heaven is, standing in God's pure and intense presence and mutually experiencing Him unmasked and unveiled: and He - you. This "mutual experiencing" of God and one of his children, done in God's presence, is what I term "fulfillment" for it, and IT ALONE, can "fill full" that infinitely large chasm of potential (usually empty) that each person possesses within their soul. Few people ever get but a few glimpses of this incredible feeling, but for those whom oftentimes wade into deeper spiritual waters, it is there for the taking. It is not something we can control, as I have indicated, as God typically uses this as a carrot to entice us in the direction He wishes us to go. God sends us little "tastes" of this (carrots) occasionally usually in response to us "turning toward" something or someone He wants us to encounter. For those of us seeking a "devout and spiritual life" this "feeling" (which is more a state of consciousness than a "feeling", per se) is used both to assist us to turn the right direction and as a reward for service. Sometimes, it is just a gift of love and God may well flood you or fill you with it. This is uncommon, however, for once this leaves you, there is typically a deep yearning and hunger for its return, and the pain of knowing "bliss" (as I call this immersed state) and now not having it may be far worse than having never known its true depths to begin with.
I would like to ask at this point for you to give me a little information on how you "stumbled" onto the book, for this will also assist me to know what I desire to know at this stage of our relationship that we are building.
You said: "Of course, I realize it is just as important  for you to decide - not whether you are able, but whether it is the "correct" thing for you to "walk a little(?) with me" or not."
It is the correct thing, until such time as you alter your course. I MUST make myself available to ALL those whom seek me out, for it is part of my mission. So long as you can pay the price, we will continue until you decide we are done (and the price is time, not money!) Not only is it right for me, this is precisely where my feelings of fulfillment normally come from. You know yourself what a wonderful state of mind that is to be in, and what would you do to achieve it if it were possible for you? Teaching and guiding others, as God has created me for, is my source of this joyous fulfillment. As a matter of a fact, you will have to beat me off with a stick if allowed to fully open up and teach what Dad has taught me, for I get so much from it there mere time it takes (on my part) is never an issue. I have many times chosen to teach a seeker over all else. You know the feeling, what would you do?
You said: "I appreciate your mentioning of phone contact if you decide to proceed with me, but I am a person who must often take time "digesting" things - one who often realizes he is not "quick on his feet" and the opportunity to  read and re-read the printed word, as well as working and re-working the expression of my thoughts (at least to me) seems "wiser" -and perhaps "safer"(?) for now -and yet if this makes too much of a demand on your time and the phone would be more convenient for you -I will defer to that method of communication."
I understand and agree. If you ever decide your want to, or if you have some spiritual emergency, call me: (405) 850-5795 (cell) and tell me and I will call you back so the charges will be on me, not you. I have a cell plan with lots of minutes, so this is not usually a factor.
It is good and safe to be able to review what you want to say, before you send the message, so that you can be sure to "say what you mean" and "mean what you say." We shall continue this way as long as you wish. (BTW - I always save these conversations so if you ever reveal something you don't wish others to know, make sure you tell me that it is "confidential". I often use one persons journey to assist a similar person on their way. If a prior seeker had similar issues that you bring up, I might use their discussion with me as food for thought for you. I also sometimes use one person's issues to help another to see more clearly.
You said: "What is next ? Do I inquire what you would ask of me?"
If you are "ready", as you seem to be, and satisfied with me as your guide, yes; it is time for me to give you some test of sincerity. Ask and you will get it next message from me...
You said: "You asked if I had any questions for you -I have one -which I realize may be one which should not be asked at this time and may need much "leading up to". But it is the predominant question in my mind as we consider a beginning and may help you see who I am more clearly. It seems more than not to me that through the pages of your book, you wish the reader to see "God" primarily as the traditional Christian "God of Love"  and the love-relationship which you demonstrate with "Him" seems the all-encompassing end-all of being. I do not dispute this at all, but behind this do you see a more complex system of relationship(s) -what I mean is that in the thoughts of others God may have created more "intervening" levels of personhood between the humanly manifesting aspect of "us" and the ultimate "Himself". Well -I realize this question may have little or no absolute relevance or its relevancy may depend on the timeliness of its being posed, but in all honesty -it does run through my mind. As this shows, I have been concerned with "thinking" much of my life and even as I strive to increase the components of being which lie beyond "logic", it remains a large part of who I have been. I look forward to reading your thoughts at this stage of our contact."

I suspect that I do not clearly understand your question, but let me take a few stabs at your statements and see if i hit any thing...
A very interesting and thought-provoking idea: do I see a more complex system of relationship(s) -as others see God may have created more "intervening" levels of personhood between the humanly manifesting aspect of "us" and the ultimate "Himself". I have found Jesus, the person whom I have always spoken with in my "calling" to be very simple, humble, down-to-earth and humble. He has always explained His relationship with me as a Father with a son, and has always asked me to view us in this simple relationship. The closer I got to and with Him, the clearer I saw that truth resides in simplicity, always. When and where complexity appears is usually due to limited vision, scope, understanding or power. If I was all-powerful, all-understanding without limited scope of consideration or limited view, I would see ALL THINGS as utterly simple (as Dad tells me He sees them.) It is usually our desire to go where we have not the power or capacity to go that creates what we humans view as 'complexity'.
To answer you, No, I do not "see" a more complex system of relationships (as perhaps others may see) between Dad and myself. However, I do not discount that there may be deeper understandings or levels of relationships that He may have with others. With me, as I am simple-minded, He has always been simple with me. In all of my researching Him in all of the disguises He takes, in all of the religions and their truths I have pursued, in all of the dealings with God (the true ones, I suspect) that man has had and historically revealed to us, and in all of the individuals that have reported close relationships and interactions with Him (saints-passed, I call them) I have never found the relationship with Him, or He Himself to be complex... I have seen just the opposite!
Einstein knew he had the right formula for specific relativity when the very complex equations he was dealing with ultimately simplified into e=mc^2. This very simple formula was profound in its interaction with the entire universe, and all that there is, yet the mathematical description for this interaction is utterly simplistic. It is always thus. If it appears complex, you have not yet seen the truth of it, for truth is always simple. Now, there are other beings that we humans occasionally have to deal with, that are not us, or other humans, or God Himself. In these instances, there are very complex relationships and those allowed to glimpse this "purely spiritual" plane of existence are ofttimes very confused by what is "seen" there. If I was truly aware of what is going on spiritually, as well as physically, I would certainly perceive at least one spiritual entity here with me, guarding and protecting me spiritually. I might very well also find out that I have "assigned" to me some entity whose purpose is quite the opposite of this guardian. And each of these entities have their own "personalities", likes, dislikes, desires, wishes, hopes, etc. These beings and I, if interacting, will have very complex relationships.
Ofttimes spiritual seekers develop the ability to sense these spiritual entities, in some aspect, and they can be quite confusing to the uninitiated.
You must also realize, we can only "come from" the perspective that we have. We can only approach "truth" from the direction we are currently at, on the path we are on now. I strongly suggest you read, "The Blind Men and the Elephant" to get a hint of what I mean here.
Our perception is always colored and limited in scope and view based on our perspective. Our perspective is typically determined by our position relative to where we are looking. Where we have "come from" determines which way we are from "truth". Just as each blind man approached the elephant from a different path (perspective) and therefore each of them perceived the elephant differently, the real key is that each of them had a very limited "scope" (perspective) due to their limitations of experiencing only what was presented to them (based again on their perspective and path) and therefore, although each of them got a small piece of the truth of what an elephant was like, each of them was wrong in that their view was limited.
If I had been raised Buddhist, rather than Christian, my perspective would certainly be very different than it is today... HOWEVER, this does NOT change the TRUTH, only my perspective and limited view of it.
The elephant is not changed by the blind men's examination of him, but a wiser blind man should have perhaps reapproached the beast from different perspectives and he would have discovered a wider variety of facets and aspect of the elephant that he did not initially perceive.
Enough for now, clarify your question or give me greater details on what you want to know and we will further examine this elephant called Truth.

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Fri, Dec 05, 2003 10:38 am

Subject:

Dear Peniel,

( I have wondered about your "new" name -did I miss an explanation of what it means/why God "reminded" you that it was your real name? Would you feel it proper to comment on this?)

Thank you again for the willingness to work with me. In the course of my life I have come to realize that there is always the possibility of my words being interpreted in a manner which is unintended as well as the possibility of mistaken perceptions of "who I am"  being derived from those "mis-impressions". I "feel" it is important to try to convey to you as closely as I can the state of the personality I am at present working through (although you may have a far greater understanding of that than I might realize!). In my life I have usually been more than willing to go the extra mile for anyone - but, for whatever reason, am always reluctant to "impose upon" or make demands of others. So, even though I understand your words concerning the great desire to help, I somewhat struggle against my usual proclivity to make little in the way of demands on people or their time. And at times when I wish to be the honestly open person I truly am (or at least wish I always were), my open honest desire to show who I am more often than not has made me seem foolish in the eyes of others. Again I may seem foolish, but I will allow myself to go with the feeling that at the risk of showing myself to be foolish and at the risk of babbling through your valuable time I will relate to you a (I am afraid) rather lengthy exposé of my past - solely with the best of intentions on my part because you may( at some level) "need" to see how I came to where I am and how and why I entertain the ideas that I have. Some of what follows will be a bit uncomfortable for me, and I "feel" much of it deals with matters which could be  extraneous to your spirituality. But still, at the risk of…I think I need to relate the following (many apologies in advance!) Several themes run throughout.

I was brought up in a strict Roman Catholic home and attended parochial grade and high school. With  the guilt of sin and the confessional and a priest who was all that a stereotypical fire and brimstone minister could be, I began my "participatory religious life" in making a first confession withholding sins that were "too  terrible" to relate to the priest, then going on to first communion ("knowing" that the boy ,whom I then was, was  now "condemned to hell"). Yet with the pressure of family and the religious society in which I was a member, I continued the "bad confession" and "sacriligious communions". You can imagine the state of mind  that boy lived in on a daily basis! Later in life, I would reflect on all  this, and believe that perhaps the "good" which came of it was that  parts of my personality were developed which would not otherwise have been . -I am not referring to feelings of knowing death would mean eternal punishment in hellfire, or "compulsive(?) eating disorders, or a strand of an inferiority complex or "feeling different". I mean an acute sense of "awareness" ,which (whether it was there before or not) would certainly give me all sorts of social and academic advantages over peers who in a comparative sense "slept" their way through existence. Perhaps also an enormous compassion for others comes from these experiences in my childhood. I have long been a high school teacher and the students I am drawn to and struggle to make life easier for" are those who aren't quite the "normal" or jock/cheerleader types.

Perhaps it led me to further develop my intellect than I would have. I do know that somewhere in those years I "rationalized" that if I was damned beyond religious help, I would make amends by "serving others". But whatever "gifts" arose were dearly paid for in the mind of that small boy! Later in early teen years, I tried to make it right with good confessions, etc. but discovered I was entangled in a net of "scrupulosity" ( perhaps as much as some say Luther was). And, perhaps like him, I  came not only to the conclusion  that good works might save me, but also that if the Church had done this to little boy, then the whole concept of the church as a valid religious vehicle needed re-examining -and for me the early conclusion was atheism. Later, after marriage I tried to "come back into the fold" but could never "buy into it" again. I let it all go -yet sent the kids to parochial school out of a sense of "it didn't work for me -but that is no reason to deny them the opportunity to experience religion and God". In my heart, I never viewed myself as a bad person -perhaps too much the opposite.

And I always felt I tried to help others however I could. For example, in my junior year in high school, the only office I  ran for  was student council president. I ran because I felt the others only wanted it for themselves and wouldn't make the effort to make it a better place for everyone (you can see the wild idealistic dreamer side of me!) -I campaigned and between the work of those who knew me and my speaking to the student body, the result was that I won. Thereafter I sacrificed much time and effort to deliver on my intention. With my "people skills and intellect" I also easily gained offices in college and felt I was "destined to save the world by being president"!!!!!! Then I "waited for the call" or direction -but nothing appeared  -at least not that I then recognized. Later I realized I didn't have to "make up for anything" and with that realization, the over-whelming drive to compensate by serving others through holding an office dissipated.

I subsequently decided my "emotional" side was not what was needed to lead others and chose the "quiet contemplative life". Later when I thought I had made the wrong decision, the marriage I was in and the circumstances stemming from the person I was married too precluded any changes -which created a deep sense of guilt which remained tantamount for many years -I still have a "feeling" that  I may have "missed the mission I was sent for" - in many ways as terrible  a thought to live with as the guilt and condemnation of boy's early religious experience! (And yet today, there is a "part of myself" which can "be the window" through which my "soul(?)" looks out and views all these things with equanimity, seeing  "doingness" as irrelevant to "beingness"! There was a time when I really could put aside the ego and perception of being the body and  "operate from a frame of being which was grounded in a "different" aspect of being. A framework of love.

    In your list of questions in the book you ask about aliens. This brings in another area of my life. As a boy I had several terrifying nightmares, which seemed to repeat night after night. At the time they seemed to deal with monsters (and that may very well be all there was to them). But the image of the "thing" "capturing" me (although to this day I have blurred the face and cannot se it clearly) is interestingly enough quite capable of being interpreted as one of "the greys".

  At the time of that period of my life I still recall the sense of dread and almost "presence" I felt. (in college, I had an experience of awakening to what I still believe was a dark being hovering above my face. But I "feel" this was a non-corporeal entity, not an "alien"). Why an alien connection? I and two of my friends in high school found ourselves in my parents backyard one very late night with an enormous triangular blue "craft" hovering not very high above our heads -what went on before that I am not sure. So-UFO's?-I have long KNOWN they are more than balls of light!

  You have mentioned a period of aridity in your life and a "challenging" daughter -I KNOW what you mean -it sounds like you have just alluded to my "problem" with my second oldest daughter! But before she eventually grew up and left the house, I grew to realize what a "gift" her presence really was! -the opportunity to be challenged, and when I finally "got it" -  the opportunity to "deal with it" in a God-inspired way (but unfortunately, that experience had so negatively contributed to the problems already existing between my wife and I, that it perhaps was" the event" which let me to know that that relationship was a hopeless one for me.)

   It was during the years of almost hopelessness with the relationship with my wife and second oldest that I really began the journey at a steady and determined pace, but the start was almost accidental. I had always been an "exercise freak" (remember the overweight and compulsive eating kid?). I would "escape" the chaos of the household and drive to a state park almost daily to run. The running and the "state of mind" it induced as well as sitting afterwards and re-discovering the absolute JOY of just being and being in nature led me to a tranquility of soul and peace of mind which was such that when I returned home, I could handle the chaos and hostility.

Eventually -although I didn't have the experience of talking with God, I did feel as though I was existing in a state which has been called "the true self", "the natural self" or existing while feeling the love of God -I had the sense of presence at times and operated from a" beingness of love" - As you have said -I remember the state of being and I can empathizes with Eckhardt Tolle when he laments his ensuing dark night of the soul - his period of "aridity".

  (Please forgive my wordiness- I really do feel embarassed -not at what I am saying (for it has been my truth), but in asking you to sift through this growing tale!)

  Now  for the "interesting" and perhaps more relevant part.

  As I young person -perhaps before my religious problem, I and a friend were out in my parent's front yard one evening gazing at the stars. We decided to wish with all our might that if there were "spacemen" they would come and let us ride with them. After going in the house and sitting in the kitchen (it was late and everyone was in bed) I heard my name called -but it was perplexing as it sounded as though the voice which spoke it was INSIDE my head! Not wanting to acknowledge this I went into the next room as if someone in the family had called out -but there was no one else there. I quickly left that area of the house and went to my room -denial is pretending it didn't happen and everything is alright. Years later, during my agonizing marriage where I was so despondent I often contemplated suicide -and the realization that my two youngest children NEEDED me to protect them (to some degree) from my second oldest and my wife -may have been the only thing which prevented me from "escaping", (I can't re member how close to exploring these thoughts it happened)  I heard the voice in my mind call my name twice. I lay still awaiting further developments but nothing more happened.

   Because of the circumstances of my life I had decided that if there was re-incarnation, I would refuse to return and I often expressed this sentiment. I had a dream in which I was being released from prison, and at the doorway the warden forcefully thrust a book into my midsection. I asked what it was. He replied that it was the rulebook. I said I didn't need it because I was getting out. He replied - Read it! Learn it! You WILL be back! I immediately awoke and knew beyond any doubt in my own mind that a message had very purposefully been conveyed to me. It was from that moment on that I determined to discover all I could about "the rules" and spent years exhaustively studying any and all things which seemed pertinent that I could get my hands on. One of my interests had always been history. I had been drawn to ancient history -the earliest known beliefs, religious ideas of cultures which had gone before. I wanted to discover what I could of what men thought/knew before the appearance of the Christian church. I had read most of what was available through the "orthodox" textbooks and had always scoffed at "the other things" as idiocy and nonsense. But very slowly as I expanded my research I discovered more and more which caused me to suspend my judgment. After years of study and research, I was amazed to realize that there seems to have been much of a very deep and pure spiritual nature which had been marginalized and sanitized. I came across the accounts (new to me at the time) of outright manipulation of documents and beliefs by various factions for various reasons. I was amazed at how widespread the " original perennial spirituality" had been. Among other things, I studied the Seth material, the Conversations with God series. I became aware of a much vaster system of belief and state of being. The rationale for creation and the various "roles" "we" play, and a concept which became very interesting to me was the concept of the "evolution of the soul (as CWG might phrase it), and coming from a totally different perspective( but with yet the same idea) was Seth's "value fulfillment" - that in essence we are sparks of God, we come from "out of" God and begin the journey of re-increasing our level of conscious awareness until we reach the total immersion again with our point of origin(perhaps through slow meticulous study, perhaps through instantaneous "enlightenment).  In CWG it was stated that "enlightenment" could be gradual or arrive all at once in one life time. The reason I refer so much to this will be made more clear in what follows.

  I seemed to be moving along nicely in acting from a beingness of love and to borrow such over worked terms -it became more and more commonplace and then quite natural

To "raise my kundalindi energy" which might also be somewhat stated as raising the level of conscious awareness. The BIG EVENT occurred as follows: one day I "had the sudden realization" that my "intuition" was becoming very strong. In my marriage there were always financial problems centering on my wife's health problems and spending habits.  I decided to go to a casino and see if I could do something about the finances using my "intuition". (I had been previously -my mother had asked me to take her on a regular basis -but we both always lost and I had all but decided not to go again.) I let my intuition guide me to a slot machine and after a period of time hit a nice jackpot. Afterwards, I continued "trying out" this possible new area of "
ability", but with not a great deal of continual success afterwards.Then I remember playing a machine which would "hit" a hundred dollar payoff, then take it all back, then hit again and I remember thinking, if only I knew when to play it -then a voice again in my mind said I'll tell myself when to play.-It was like the episodes of my name being called -it was nothing to do with the "normal me". After that, this voice would suddenly say things to me such as "Stop, go down to the second floor (as I followed its direction it would continue) Turn right. Go forward turn left, turn around, play this machine and the machine would immediately pay out several hundred dollars -sometimes before I could even gather in the coins I would be directed to a second machine which hit immediately. The voice was not continuous, but came at unexpected times. I had no feeling of any good or evil presence-and somehow it seemed to be "me" speaking to myself. (In retrospect it is bizarre that I was never "dialoged with on other topics nor was Idirected to any thing but quarter machines and never for more than  a few hundred dollars' jackpot. But it continued and I was able to pay our bills and even have a small amount of money for extras and emergencies. I am still trying to figure out exactly what this was. God does work in mysterious ways, but if it were he, why not speak of something more important than small things such as little slot machine payoffs? The voice soon stopped, but I found I could simply look at a machine and know if it was ready to pay out ( please take this seriously -as stupid as it all sounds!) That phase passed and I felt if I (for lack of a better word) concentrated on altering my consciousness (which I became adept at for a while) I would lead myself right to a machine which would "hit" and after stopping concentrating found that I could feel literal tugging at my solar plexus area pulling me to a machine that would "hit". I remember an earlier dialog in my head where the voice told me the day and time to board to hit a jackpot, which would be in the thousands. I often wondered if all this was just to get my attention/just to help me financially/ -or (and here might be a key) afterwards, I had decided to use this ability and go for large jackpots to ease the financial future for quite awhile down the road( do more than just marginally get by) and deliberately made the decision instead of being led to jackpots as they arose, I would seek out bigger jackpots even if it meant waiting for them. Successful at first, I over-reached myself (-Faust?). And would play "the right machine" but after awhile begin to doubt and give up only to see it "hit" soon afterward by someone else. I had even been able to directed-dream  - to receive the info the night before in a dream as to which machine would hit -it worked -the only problem (like the lamp's three wishes) were I couldn't tell how long I would have to wait before it hit and often gave up too soon. Then I would become frustrated and angry (I had become so caught up in this -all with the best of intentions and purpose at the start) that I couldn't see how this was slowly replacing my woodland idylls and "quiet time". Eventually I wound up "wasting time and money" and (as I know see) the way I chose and let myself become engulfed in this "winning money" thing was causing the frustration to turn into anger and feelings of having been set up and "betrayed". I (shamedly I tell you this -) found a deep inner anger dominating my life and I spent many an hour cursing "the powers that be" with all my might -terrible blaspheming ! (especially as I looked at all the  events of my entire life with all the pain and suffering and trauma -which seemed to have been unending. I had also been very disappointed when, after reading A Course on Miracles, I believed that I had been ready to yield the ego side of me up to God -and when I made that commitment, I was flabbergasted that nothing happened/changed - perhaps I have learned that our appraisal of our readiness cannot be trusted -"all in God's time-?)  As the anger grew (of course) the feeling of being a center of love( and projecting that) dried up totally ( I now realize to a fuller extent, the implication of Christ's comments about the rich man and the eye of a needle!). Severe depression, yet anger at God or whatever. I have come through it enough to now realize all this and to realize that even if "conditions" "led" me to these actions, I had allowed it and chose the path and chose the anger and even hatred and chose to blame something else other than myself. Before quite reaching bottom I several times was able to "turn it around" -but yet used the slot machines as a "test" of where I was  -strangely enough it seemed just when I got frustrated enough to quit playing this game (several times) on almost my "last" attempt a huge jackpot would appear from nowhere -but yet would over time disappear into the machines and whenever I was about to stop again, another big "hit -as though on the very last throw "something" was making sure I DIDN"T stop.  Well, eventually I did, but the anger, feelings of being set up and betrayed and all that had their toll (of course!) on my spiritual life. I am still uncertain as to how/why these "miraculous" powers came or went. And, even though it is said that in avoiding judging others, we must also refrain from judging ourselves, the belief that God does offer a relationship to us  - with the result that if it is not being experienced,  it is because of a failing on our part - well this realization makes it very difficult to avoid feeling oneself a remarkable failure -  and "obviously" very unworthy! The idea does enter my mind that whatever I am trying to reach/be/attain/accomplish in this life maybe something that for whatever reason, I just cannot attain. That if the lack of such realization exists, then I have failed to do what is "required" -a very sobering thought, indeed. And yet there are still moments where I really do feel I should just "be me", take life as it comes and what is destined to happen will happen or it won't!

    This (thank heavens) brings us to the reason I posed you the question about God creating intervening levels of "personhood" According to Walsch and Seth it is the way creation functions -multi-layered with "us" here being a fraction of the "higher-self" we are part of. And that higher self being part of a higher self all the way back to the Source.
If there is only God , why would He have led me into all this knowing the outcome? Was it the "natural" evolution of "me" toward my higher self and the resultant use of inherent (but usually latent) abilities? Was it an "entity" of some sort to either get vicarious entertainment, or working for my eventual "downfall" Trying to answer these questions seemed to have much importance for me -perhaps pointing to "the Truth". I KNOW these abilities were not part of me as the "normal" human being -I am not sure where they came from or why .(I have been wrong so many times in my life about so many things  I "knew" to be true, that I now hold almost everything with a grain of salt/in abeyance-but I don't think THE  devil; exists -but there are beings of evil-intent:-maybe that is hairsplitting -I firmly believe that the only Hell is the one we create - which lasts only as long as we continue to create it.)

  So, I again apologize for the length of this, and hope I have done "the right thing" in determining to present this to you. Again, I say that in the beginning my motives were of good intent, but realize how this was my downward slide. Knowing how much you love "Dad" I would rather not have told you of my anger and cursing -but I own it and now believe even that may have been a necessary part of the road I am on. I am not proud of it, but do own up to it. Let me say that throughout my life (even though perhaps in broken segments) I have sought to do the good and become what I should be. At times things have stuck out and have registered in me as almost a knowing -for instance, in high school the line of "hiding your light under a bushel" hit me and I knew it was an admonition which drove me to service -and also caused regret that I wouldn't, then couldn't follow a political service life. The dream of the book -I knew what it meant (to me re-incarnation is the only thing that makes sense if the soul evolves slowly and one does not "make it in one life time". Another thing that seemed ordinary but personally hit me like a ton of bricks at the time (30-40 years ago) and still comes up in times of difficulty is: "Our greatest glory is not in never having fallen, but in falling each time rising up again" - it almost seemed to tell me life would be very difficult on a continuing cyclical basis and my task was to persevere and rise each time - but oh, the pain and the frustration and the depression!. The last "fall" has been the most difficult for it involved falling from the highest height I had been able to reach in this lifetime( I am not referring to  a "special gift for gambling, but the state of loving-being I continually operated from prior to falling from all that) -at times I didn't think I could do it again, haltingly, slowly, I have started in jerks and fresh falls, but I am determined -I shall not waste the opportunity of this life. I may never "make it", but I will hopefully continue to make the attempt to keep putting one foot in front of the other for as long as I can. If I fall again, I hope to muster the strength to learn from it, and to get up once again -for however long it takes. Even as I write this, I am "amazed to "hear myself" tell myself "truths" I had forgotten. Well. I have spent too much time on this (especially in view of your comment about "simplicity" "being a virtue" - well, at least as far as The Truth is concerned!), please accept this as coming from my best intentions so that by this reading you may better decide your course of action from this point.

David

P.S. Please be aware that I only have e mail access through my classroom computer on schooldays.

P.P.S. In answer to your inquiry of how I discovered your book -I was shopping on the net and saw your comments about one of the CWG books, this led to my looking for your text and then ordering it.

Submitted: Sat, Dec 06, 2003 8:27 pm

Subject: Stage 1: Purgation - Basic Questions

David,
It will take me a while to respond to such verbosity... Don't worry, I have a clear path for you, but it will take some doing to help you to see this path, as you have grown quite a tangled and complex jungle over it. (I feel for you, you must be very confused in your spirit.)

I would like for you to spend some time thinking about the basic spiritual question, as we will have to start there to begin and unclutter your way. To help you on your way, let me start you off and then you can expand with similar questions while I prepare my response to you.
I want you to create a "Personal Logbook" in which we will track your journey. Get yourself a looseleaf notebook, and about 20 pages in, white down and answer the questions I pose for you here (or type them in the computer and print them if that is easier.) Also print out the series of emails we have already been through and put them in there also.
We will now start your journey.
PURGATION: As a beginning, let us start by figuring out where we (as I am now 'with' you) "are" (i.e. what you believe.) We need to do this so that we can then determine which way to go from here. We MUST start from here, no matter where here is, for "here" is where you truly are. We MUST determine where HERE is, if we wish to advance, rather than retreat, for to move any direction without a clear understanding of where you are will always be the wrong path.
Our first task is to determine where we currently "are". We shall be in the first stage of spiritual progression, called "purgation" whose primary purpose is to "purge" ourselves of that which is false, wrong, untrue, unneeded, incorrect, inappropriate, a hindrance, and or a wall between us and truth. It is NOT the time to learn new things, but rather, the time to UNLEARN those things which are causing your confusion, complexity and fear. As a guide, this is where I choose to take you first.
In order to untangle a complex knot (as it appears you have gotten your mind and spirit in) it is always best to start over with the basics, reexamine things from a fresh perspective, and often much of the complexity will simplify and much of the confusion will turn to clarity. Each item starts: "Do I believe and accept as true that:..." (It must be YES or NO, but can have clarifications)
1.) There is/may be a Creator
2.) There is/may be a God for me (not a God someone else showed me, told me about, or taught me of)
3.) There is/may be a Higher Intelligence  non-human than us
4.) There is/may be more than one Creator
5.) There is/may be more than one God for me
6.) There is/may be more than one Higher Intelligence non-human being
7.) There is/may be non-human, non-angelic (angels and demons), non-earthly intelligent beings (aliens)
8.) There is/may be contact between us (human earthlings) and these aliens
9.) There is/may be aliens very similar in nature, personality and composition to us on other worlds, with history like ours
10.) There is/may be a heaven (a place of eternal happiness where some humans will ultimately reside)
11.) There is/may be a hell (a place of eternal unhappiness where some humans will ultimately reside)
12.) There is/may be "other" eternal places, other than these 2 that we are unaware of
13.) There is/may be more than one of me (as a individual person) [e.g. I am not necessarily a unique personality]
14.) There is/may be more than one earthly life-cycle that I must/can go through (reincarnation)
15.) There is/may be more than one earthly life-cycle that I must/can go through and as different species (birds, plants, us)

16.) There is/may be 'spiritual forces' that are there to help me

17.) There is/may be 'spiritual forces' that are there to hurt me

18.) There is/may be a 'leader' of these spiritual forces on both sides

19.) There is/may be a purpose for my life (separate and individual from all others)

20.) There is/may be a way for me to discover this purpose for my life

21.) The nature of the Creator is a loving father

22.) The Creator's chosen role with us is that of a loving father

23.) The Creator cares about my daily problems and concerns

24.) The Creator wants me to have success, well-being and good-fortune

25.) The Creator has the power to assist me

26.) The Creator, like us, has His own individual personality

27.) The Creator, like us, has certain things that He likes, and other things that He dislikes

28.) The Creator, like us, has the power to choose to do as He wants

29.) The Creator, unlike us, never lies

30.) The Creator, unlike us, keeps his promises

(To help you come up with many more of you own, consider that you have been given the task of determining what spiritual belief structure (religion) an intelligent alien has and what type of "Creator" he believes in (what is the nature of this being.) Pretend you are devising a set of simple questions to ask him to help clarify for me what this alien "believes".) I suspect that as you begin considering and answering these questions, you may receive some peace of mind (as you discard and remove those barriers you have placed between your mind and peace.)

As I work out a response to you last email, please answer and clarify (if you feel it needs such) these questions for me, then add as many of your own as you will and answer them also. Send all of this to me and from that, we shall determine what further questions to ask or which direction to begin traveling.

May Dad give you the strength to continue and the grace to persevere.

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Sun, Dec 07, 2003 2:32 am

Subject: Your next step

David,

First, a few lessons for you (please put these in the logbook you are supposed to have made and start keeping!)

Lesson 001: Life is really much more simple that most of us see it. The spiritual life is a journey, a path upon which we must all tread. Much of the journey is already laid out for us and we have little choice as to the direction it may lead us. If we get off the path intended for us, it will surely be a more difficult road. At each end of life's journey is a destination. The path we choose will ultimately determine the destination we will arrive at. In truth, there is only one path for each of us that we may take, but it goes in two different directions (forwards and backwards.) There are sideturns, and short distractionary sidepaths, but ultimately, it is not up to us to choose the path we are upon, it has been chosen for us.
Lesson 1 stated in a Christian context: Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man goes to the Father except through me. All who find the Father, first find me. If you know me, you know the way to the Father."
Now, what IS our choice along life's spiritual path is basically fourfold:
1.) Which way we will go (our direction)
2.) How quickly we will advance along our path (our pace)
3.) What do we choose to do at each stopping place along our path (our life's events)
4.) How do we feel about the choices we are making along our path (our attitude)
Lesson 002: There are no accidents in life. There is no such thing as chance or luck in spiritual matters. Everything that happens is as a result of our choices, OR, it is "chosen for us". For those whom are in a good relationship with the Creator: all things work for their benefit and good. For those whom the Creator does not favor: few things work for their benefit or good (for to do so would encourage the person in the wrong direction - a thing a loving Father would never do and rarely allows.)
Lesson 2 stated in a Christian context: "All things work for the good of those whom love the Lord."
Lesson 003: Most people are generally lazy spiritually: They won't really change their lives until their lives are so bad that they have to change them or they will die! (Peniel G.G.G.)
Please keep these lessons in mind as I comment on your verbose email so that you can understand "where I am coming from" in my answers. These above lessons are things that I believe and live by.
As promised, I will take some of what you wrote and comment on it. I will comment on all of it (although my comments my beat up your verbosity.) I will comment in black (and blue for emphasis) and your text will be in red.
---------------------------------------------------
( I have wondered about your "new" name -did I miss an explanation of what it means/why God "reminded" you that it was your real name? Would you feel it proper to comment on this?)
When Jesus first came and appeared to me, shortly before He began the conversations He had with me, he called me by that name "Peniel". I did not understand then that this was my "true" name, unlike my given-name "Mark" - something that sounded good to my parents at my birth. I understand from Him that He often reveals seekers true name's to them (and through me, he has done so to almost every one whom came under my serious guidance.) If you are interested, look it up. It is old common-tongue Hebrew, and is a perfect description of "who I am" based on the life-changing event that He sent to me. The name "defines" me. It is "who I am."
Thank you again for the willingness to work with me. In the course of my life I have come to realize that there is always the possibility of my words being interpreted in a manner which is unintended as well as the possibility of mistaken perceptions of "who I am" being derived from those "mis-impressions". I "feel" it is important to try to convey to you as closely as I can the state of the personality I am at present working through
I understand. I also have to ofttimes resort to verbosity to ensure clarity.
(although you may have a far greater understanding of that than I might realize!).
At times Dad will put words in my mouth that don't seem to mean much to me, bu they 'hit home" with the person being taught. It is very common along the "path".
In my life I have usually been more than willing to go the extra mile for anyone - but, for whatever reason, am always reluctant to "impose upon" or make demands of others. So, even though I understand your words concerning the great desire to help, I somewhat struggle against my usual proclivity to make little in the way of demands on people or their time.
Interesting bipolarism, we shall have to discuss this. I am certain that there is some false belief (as is always the case) causing you to have this seemingly contradictory set of beliefs. It is also good in that it reveals much about your "early" and therefore "initial" choice of how to "be good" and "what should I do" with my life / time. You will later see that this statement of yours above will hold the key as to what your destined "path" is (i.e. What is it that Dad really wants you to do with your life - what is your personal mission in life?)
And at times when I wish to be the honestly open person I truly am (or at least wish I always were), my open honest desire to show who I am more often than not has made me seem foolish in the eyes of others.
Here you have pointed out the key to almost everything regarding we humans! We should BE the person we truly ARE (which as you indicated for yourself includes the aspects of honesty, openness, and a willingness to SHOW that person to others.) And, in so doing, I can guarantee that you have also pointed out your dilemma and core problem - you are NOT being the person your truly are... rather, you are putting on masks to appeal to others, and you are wearing costumes that you think others will approve of, and you are hiding the true characteristics that YOU as a person have (for fear of others rejecting them) and you have traded away your integrity for safety and your openness for security and your honesty for acceptance - Or do I owe you an apology here? ;)
Again I may seem foolish, but I will allow myself to go with the feeling that at the risk of showing myself to be foolish and at the risk of babbling through your valuable time I will relate to you a (I am afraid) rather lengthy exposé of my past - solely with the best of intentions on my part because you may( at some level) "need" to see how I came to where I am and how and why I entertain the ideas that I have.
I never view one of my brothers or sisters, a child of the True God, as foolish! Now, we ofttimes "act" foolishly, or make foolish mistakes, but then, we are human after all... Do not be so hard on yourself... that is my job! Also understand, you are NOT what you do, and you are NOT what you choose. How therefore could YOU ever be foolish? (The God I know doesn't make junk, and none of his children, not even you, are fools!) And I understand about your need to ramble on in order to get it all out of your system. Self-confession, especially to a spiritual director is VERY GOOD and will bring your both grace and peace - just wait and see how you feel after you know that you have revealed all of these intimacies to a total stranger. You will "feel" much better as if a heavy weight were lifted from you. And you are correct, it is helpful for me to "see" where you think you are. This can be partially deduced by my seeing "where" you are coming from and where you think you are at.
Some of what follows will be a bit uncomfortable for me, and I "feel" much of it deals with matters which could be extraneous to your spirituality. But still, at the risk of…I think I need to relate the following (many apologies in advance!) Several themes run throughout.
If you are concerned about offending me spiritually, don't worry - I have seen it all. I have smelt what almost every slick-packaged new-age guru is stepping in and and what they have tried to sell us. I have studied all of the major religions and have studied "pre-Christian" religions and theologies from the Greeks all the way up to the modern day Freaks. I have spoken for 13 years with Jesus Christ Himself, and He has revealed much Truth to me (not that there was anything hidden or untold before, but 'my' personal understanding of it was severely lacking before He brought the light with Him for me.) I have had dealing with demons at great length and they have sometimes been given their way with me. I know their desires, and I know their ticks and tricks. I have been the free-lance mystic guru (and pizza chef) for over a hundred disciples over the last 30 years, and every disciple of mine (if they stuck with it) wound up going in the right direction on the path, and usually far from where the began with me. I have dealt with persons whom had only a few months to live and God was giving them one last chance through me. I have dealt with the silliest, flightiest, head-full-of-new-aged-gobbeldy-gook-until-I-can't-see-straight lost souls, and although not all were helped by me, none has ever shaken the firm rock and foundation of LOGIC, REASON and TRUTH that Dad laid for me and built upon.
I was brought up in a strict Roman Catholic home and attended parochial grade and high school. With the guilt of sin and the confessional and a priest who was all that a stereotypical fire and brimstone minister could be, I began my "participatory religious life" in making a first confession withholding sins that were "too terrible" to relate to the priest,
Again, these very early dealings in your spiritual life will be very helpful for you later when you begin the stage of "Illumination" and seek clarity.
Now, let me get this straight: as a young child (first confession) you had already committed sins "too terrible" to relate to the priest? Something doesn't smell right here. First of all, unless you were a teenager (I doubt) I cannot imagine in my mind (and with what Truth God has revealed to me) what you could have possibly done that was "so terrible". I suspect that what you meant to say (but did NOT say) was that you "thought" at that time that this sin was "so terrible" that you chose not to reveal it to the priest. Let me guess, it was of a sexual nature - Or do I owe you another apology here? ;)
Interesting, for a young child should neither have the grasp of this sort of "seriousness" of sin, nor be capable of it, nor even be able to comprehend such spiritual gravity. According to the Catholic Catechism, you should have understood that the priest is "Christ's representative" and actually "takes His place" in the confessional (i.e. you are not confessing to a man, but rather to God Himself whom has taken the form of this priest for your benefit and comfort.) If you had realized / understood this, and if you believed that God sees all, you are merely restating what He already knows full well that you did, for He saw you do it initially. If you had the mind enough to understand the severity of some sins, I would have suspected you would have understood that the priest acts as God's "stand-in" and the primary reason is so that you can gain the benefit of confession, reconciliation, AND guidance and counseling.
then going on to first communion ("knowing" that the boy ,whom I then was, was now "condemned to hell").
Again, very interesting. I am assuming you are a youth here, 5 to 10 years old. It is rare that a child at that age would grasp (honestly) such concepts and therefore have such deep-seated guilt complex over his serious choices he made. Perhaps you are flavoring your early memories without knowing it? Or, perhaps you were given a deeply spiritual mind at a very early age... It happens, though very rare.
Yet with the pressure of family and the religious society in which I was a member, I continued the "bad confession" and "sacrilegious communions". You can imagine the state of mind that boy lived in on a daily basis! Later in life, I would reflect on all this, and believe that perhaps the "good" which came of it was that parts of my personality were developed which would not otherwise have been .
Here we should talk in terms of the path. According to what you have said, you made a conscious choice at your first confession, and this choice turned your direction on the path (in my terms.) You then, rather than correcting this direction, continued making choices to continue in the same direction (sacrilegious communions.) You realize that these were "wrong" choices but you also believe that some good may have come from these bad choices.
-I am not referring to feelings of knowing death would mean eternal punishment in hellfire, or "compulsive(?) eating disorders, or a strand of an inferiority complex or "feeling different". I mean an acute sense of "awareness" ,which (whether it was there before or not) would certainly give me all sorts of social and academic advantages over peers who in a comparative sense "slept" their way through existence. Perhaps also an enormous compassion for others comes from these experiences in my childhood. I have long been a high school teacher and the students I am drawn to and struggle to "make life easier for" are those who aren't quite the "normal" or jock/cheerleader types. I guess I am unclear on how making some wrong choices and going the wrong way upon life's path assisted you to develop parts of your personality which would "not" have otherwise been. The key here is the word "not". I suspect I understand what you are referring to, but these "parts of your personality" you may have developed STRICTLY as a result of going the wrong way on the path (and would not have done otherwise.) I am afraid that you may find that these are not "good qualities" or "traits" to have, although they may appear that way to you currently. I know this, virtually NOTHING GOOD ever comes from our VIEW when we are looking the wrong way down the path. Oh, there may be some power there, but it is never a GOOD thing to have. There are powers and abilities that we may think would be sweet to posses, but, the end result of having these powers, even for a short time or in small amounts, ALWAYS ends in our feeling angry, frustrated and /or betrayed. We can never ADVANCE along the path in the right direction using the tools and powers we may get while traveling backwards along this path (you will see this, eventually.) At this point, I would like to introduce you to another book I wrote titled, "The Box". It is about a man whom receives great power (and knowledge) from a small box and the choices he makes in using this box of power. It is a novel, and I would like very much to send you an electronic copy. All of the information in it would be helpful for you, although you are past it's main spiritual points already. Tell me if you are interested and I will send an electronic copy to you (Adobe PDF format.) Now, as an example, imagine if a person was given the power to see his current surroundings 5 minutes into the future by looking through a special set of glasses that he has been given. You might think that such a power, given to the right person, could do a great deal of good for them. I tell you, it will ALL end in EVIL. And the person whom accepts such a thing will end up feeling angry, frustrated and /or betrayed. I speak from MANY personal experiences here, in which just such things happened in my life before I gained the wisdom to reject those parts of my abilities that were not "appropriate". I will eventually guide you to understand how to tell what aspects of you accepted spirituality are this way, if you continue. (Again, I almost always merely make observations and suggestions, it is typically up to YOU to make the actual choices being discussed. I very rarely will demand anything of you, for love does not normally make demands...)
Perhaps it led me to further develop my intellect than I would have. I do know that somewhere in those years I "rationalized" that if I was damned beyond religious help, I would make amends by "serving others". But whatever "gifts" arose were dearly paid for in the mind of that small boy! Later in early teen years, I tried to make it right with good confessions, etc. but discovered I was entangled in a net of "scrupulosity" ( perhaps as much as some say Luther was).
And this is a good example of what I just said. No amount or number of good "acts" or "deeds" can ever make up for even one sin (injustice, self-failure.) To attempt to justify an earlier choice to do what you knew you "should-not" do by now doing a hundred good things is like trying to heal the knife-wound you inflicted on your friend by now telling him what a great guy he is and how much you enjoy his company and fixing him sandwiches and cokes. I hope you see a little light here. And no one is ever "damned beyond religious help". I should hope that you were scrupulous, for the alternate choice while facing the wrong way on the path is apathy!
And, perhaps like him, I came not only to the conclusion that good works might save me, but also that if the Church had done this to little boy, then the whole concept of the church as a valid religious vehicle needed re-examining -and for me the early conclusion was atheism.
I want you to VERY CAREFULLY examine your statement above, for here we see where you lost your greatest treasure. And upon this statement, you traded away your integrity for acceptance. I can understand why you would lie to yourself at this stage, it is very common. But, it appears that you are still lying to yourself, and that you still accept and live by this false belief. However, do not think that I accept or believe your lie. I see it for just what it is. I don't mind if you intend to deceive yourself, but do not think you can drag me into your self-deception here. You need to send this statement back to me modified to be TRUTHFUL, or to acknowledge you self-deception, or we need to further discuss this event. Here's a hint: Human Maturity is the measure of a person's willingness to accept personal responsibility! Later, after marriage I tried to "come back into the fold" but could never "buy into it" again. I let it all go -yet sent the kids to parochial school out of a sense of "it didn't work for me -but that is no reason to deny them the opportunity to experience religion and God". In my heart, I never viewed myself as a bad person -perhaps too much the opposite. Isn't it such a God-awful shame that such an early event, so trivial in it's essence, can for so long keep us standing on the wrong side of the road, facing traffic whizzing by us, so dangerous to us personally, getting nowhere in such a hurry. Never seeing the beautiful vistas we were supposed to have seen, spending almost all of our time dodging traffic... And, so unfortunate that such bad choices are made by such good persons...
And I always felt I tried to help others however I could. For example, in my junior year in high school, the only office I ran for was student council president. I ran because I felt the others only wanted it for themselves and wouldn't make the effort to make it a better place for everyone (you can see the wild idealistic dreamer side of me!) -I campaigned and between the work of those who knew me and my speaking to the student body, the result was that I won. Thereafter I sacrificed much time and effort to deliver on my intention. With my "people skills and intellect" I also easily gained offices in college and felt I was "destined to save the world by being president"!!!!!! Then I "waited for the call" or direction -but nothing appeared -at least not that I then recognized. Later I realized I didn't have to "make up for anything" and with that realization, the over-whelming drive to compensate by serving others through holding an office dissipated. Yeah, yeah, you are a great guy. Of that, I have no doubt. Everyone I have ever met is really a great guy, deep down. We are all children of God, a great King. So we are all princes and princesses. You are my spiritual brother, and I truly care for you. I know well how valuable you are to both God and myself. Dad has already shown me in much greater detail and scope just what a prize you are to us. I alread know your beauty and worth and value. You do not have to convince me (if that is your intention here.) I see you as one of the lost sheep that Jesus refers to that I might lend a hand in recovering from out of the ditch, so that God might rejoice and have a great celebration over the return of one of His lost children! I know what He intends for you to do, and how severe the impact of your not doing it will be to all of us. I am grateful that He has given me the rare opportunity to assist one as valuable as you along your path.
Remember, life is a journey, we are on a path? What if we suddenly wound up in a bad place, going in the wrong direction, with danger at every turn. The real problem is that it is so difficult to remember that your purpose is to drain the swamp when you are up to your ass in alligators every day!
And, unfortunately, all of our good works are as filthy rags, unfit, unclean... UNACCEPTABLE to God - unless WE are at the time of doing these good works also ACCEPTABLE to God. (Sorry, David, I must call a spade a spade and not pull any punches if we are to make any real progress.) I understand that MANY good people do many great things... and all for a loss for at the time they do these wonderful things, they have already turned their back on God (remember the path, and the direction...) It is not God's fault or desire that their good works go unacknowledged or unrewarded... yet, to do otherwise would be encouragement for one to continue facing the wrong direction... I hope you can see this.
I subsequently decided my "emotional" side was not what was needed to lead others and chose the "quiet contemplative life". Later when I thought I had made the wrong decision, the marriage I was in and the circumstances stemming from the person I was married too precluded any changes -which created a deep sense of guilt which remained tantamount for many years -I still have a "feeling" that I may have "missed the mission I was sent for" - in many ways as terrible a thought to live with as the guilt and condemnation of boy's early religious experience! (And yet today, there is a "part of myself" which can "be the window" through which my "soul(?)" looks out and views all these things with equanimity, seeing "doingness" as irrelevant to "beingness"!
It would be very difficult to have become a "contemplative" with the view you must have had. I would have suspected that if you had tried that sidepath, it would have caused you much pain and difficulty very quickly. (It is not easy to lovingly start at what is seen as devastation and waste...)
Again and again, you reiterate how looking backwards, from so many years ago, and having never turned around, what a fruitless landscape to behold. What a devastated landscape is lost hope, what a terrible ravaged field is banished choice. Again, you choose NOT to accept the responsibility for the choices YOU MADE.
I also see how you can have strong feelings of having "missed the mission you were sent here to do" for the work God has wanted you to be doing, which ONLY you could do, has gone undone for many years now... But, there is hope. You are given this chance with me to perhaps, one last time, be willing to SEE what you must do.
And that feeling of guilt and condemnation that you have over your earlier choices: I thank God you still feel it and pray that He increases these feeling of guilt and condemnation until it is unbearable to you... for this has been His greatest gift to you throughout these years, and you have felt it a curse. I pray that you are so overwhelmed with remorse and guilt that God's Grace may finally be able to crack open your shell a little, and that some of the Divine Light might flood into your personality so that you can see clearly what you must soon do!
I hear you. I feel and know your pain. I feel for you. I understand you, very clearly. I have seen it many many times in others lives, just as you have stated it here. I hope and pray you will have the courage and that God will grant you the grace and strength to make the hard choices you shall soon face. I pray and fervently ask Dad to be merciful with you, now that you have show signs of a willingness to examine where you are. Perhaps even the courage to finally TURN, and therein turn your life's direction around (after so many wasted years... God, what a shame...) BUT, rejoice! You are but a simple TURN from facing the rest of your destiny in the way Dad has so often lovingly called you, so many times have you rejected His still small voice, eventually fading in the high-pitched drone of your daily stage play of calamities and complexities you surround yourself with... all in a vain effort to refuse to see the simple and relentless choice that Dad has pursued you with all of your life. And what's up with this "doingness" and "beingness"? Sounds like new-aged gobbeldy-gook to me. Does taking this complicated view of relations and life help you to relieve the pain and suffering of the guilt you constantly bear? Do you think that if life and God are complicated enough, then perhaps we can be relieved of our responsibility of doing what we KNOW He Wants us to do?
There was a time when I really could put aside the ego and perception of being the body and "operate from a frame of being which was grounded in a "different" aspect of being. A framework of love.
I find that hard to believe, but I can understand why you would want to believe it yourself...
In your list of questions in the book you ask about aliens. This brings in another area of my life. As a boy I had seeveral terrifying nightmares, which seemed to repeat night after night. At the time they seemed to deal with monsters (and that may very well be all there was to them). But the image of the "thing" "capturing" me (although to this day I have blurred the face and cannot se it clearly) is interestingly enough quite capable of being interpreted as one of "the greys".
A quick question - did these dreams come before or after your first confession? - Or do I owe you another apology here? ;)
At the time of that period of my life I still recall the sense of dread and almost "presence" I felt. (in college, I had an experience of awakening to what I still believe was a dark being hovering above my face. But I "feel" this was a non-corporeal entity, not an "alien"). Why an alien connection? I and two of my friends in high school found ourselves in my parents backyard one very late night with an enormous triangular blue "craft" hovering not very high above our heads -what went on before that I am not sure. So-UFO's?-I have long KNOWN they are more than balls of light!
I am surprised that they left you alone so much. They never gave me much rest. Boy, the minute I was facing the wrong direction, they were all over me like flies on shit. I had UFO experiences, demonic obsession, paranoid delusions, you name it. Back in 78 and 79 they damn near killed me! (Oh, they would have loved to do that, if they had been allowed... for they knew full well just how many people I was going to turn from them, and they knew what kind of work and service those whom I helped turn were going to do for Dad...) I suspect that if they don't really fear that you might quickly make an alternate choice, and turn away from THEM, they might very well just leave you alone and to your own devices... Even before Jesus came, THEY CAME! Oh yeah, I had voices. And they told me amazing things. They led me down the path as far as they thought I would buy-in to. Man, I got my life so mixed up and complicated, you wouldn't believe it. Then they dragged me through depressions and fear. I had paranoid delusions that our parakeet and the wires behind the stereo were plotting to kill me. My poor wife had to suffer through all of the crap that I put us through, all from my bad choices, and then my denial of responsibility for them.
Oh well, this is about you, not me. Just understand, you are not the lone ranger here, others have been through the terrors and pain you have gone through. Fortunately for you, yours is going to be an utterly simple (though not necessarily easy to accept) resolution. You have mentioned a period of aridity in your life and a "challenging" daughter -I KNOW what you mean -it sounds like you have just alluded to my "problem" with my second oldest daughter!
Why do I smell refusal of personal responsibility coming up even before I read this? BTW - You misread me, I have never had a challenging daughter or relationship with her (she is a treasure and a gift form God - an angel...) What I was saying is that I had a young daughter whom I "wanted to love and feel loving toward" when I was in one of my aridities. She was so beautiful and good and sweet and smart, yet, because of my aridity I felt nothing towards her. THIS was the terrible thing, to not be able to feel the justified deep love I had for her, or even my darling wife. No matter, in your misreading, you have further revealed some truths about yourself, and perhaps the misreading touched a Freudian chord in you somewhere.
But before she eventually grew up and left the house, I grew to realize what a "gift" her presence really was!
Well hallelujah! You have finally expressed some love and truth and taken some personal responsibility in this statement... - Or do I owe you another apology here? ;)
-the opportunity to be challenged, and when I finally "got it" - the opportunity to "deal with it" in a God-inspired way (but unfortunately, that experience had so negatively contributed to the problems already existing between my wife and I, that it perhaps was" the event" which let me to know that that relationship was a hopeless one for me.)
You see, even the small good that you "could" do (as a loving father to your daughter) is stolen away from you by your false belief that a person is what they do. You refused to love your daughter whom deserved and would have greatly benefited from your love - because you saw her as her actions and her actions were not worthy of love. You should love people for "who they are" and never mistake THEM for "what they do". Jesus, Dad has persisted in loving you for so many years while you obstinately refuse to talk to Him, and you stand with your back to Him. He has never given up on you, and has now even gone to the lengths of sending you a personal guide, and the greatest one of those around! (No brag - just fact.) He must really love you to let you occupy so much of my time (which is of great consequence, you understand) and to make me feel so compelled to walk beside you for a ways, and even in giving me great joy and fulfillment in responding to your lost-seeker babbling! I am amazed at what extents He sometimes pursues us... He really does love us more than we can imagine! I suspect that there is some great work He wants you to do otherwise He wouldn't be putting so much effort into turning you around.
It was during the years of almost hopelessness with the relationship with my wife and second oldest that I really began the journey at a steady and determined pace, but the start was almost accidental. I had always been an "exercise freak" (remember the overweight and compulsive eating kid?). I would "escape" the chaos of the household and drive to a state park almost daily to run. The running and the "state of mind" it induced as well as sitting afterwards and re-discovering the absolute JOY of just being and being in nature led me to a tranquility of soul and peace of mind which was such that when I returned home, I could handle the chaos and hostility. This sounds like the man whom is so happy to have a nice fresh piece of lettuce to put on his moldy bread with the rancid meat and rotten cheese. What a delightful sandwich it must then be. Yes, I know, into each life God sends what joy and pleasure he may. Now, here is what I would have said regarding the same period in my life (while facing FORWARD on my path): It was during the years of almost unbearable love with the relationship with my wife and daughter that I really began the journey at a steady and determined pace, but the start was almost accidental. I have never been an "exercise freak" (I was a very skinny kid, but grew broader and grander with each passing year of my wife's wonderful cooking!) I loved the peace and serenity of our home, but would sometimes be dragged away to go geocaching (typically in a state or city park.) Oh sure, I enjoyed the feeling of just being and being in nature, but even the tranquility of soul and peace of mind which ensued were pale in comparison to the warm fire and glow of love from my wonderful wife and beautiful daughter upon finally returning home. I wonder about others in their home's whom seemed to have to deal with only chaos and hostility. Eventually -although I didn't have the experience of talking with God, I did feel as though I was existing in a state which has been called "the true self", "the natural self" or existing while feeling the love of God -I had the sense of presence at times and operated from a" beingness of love" - As you have said -I remember the state of being and I can empathizes with Eckhardt Tolle when he laments his ensuing dark night of the soul - his period of "aridity".
Of course, often times has God called you, begged you, sent you signs as to where He was in relation to you. Since He decided to bring you into this world into the family He did, and since He decided what religion you would initially be raised and taught in, and since He instilled you with such deep spiritual understanding at such an early stage... I suspect that He has had great plans for you from the earliest times. However, He does not FORCE us to do what He has destined for us to do. He gives us our freedom to choose, and then to choose again, and every moment of your life, He has offered to you the ability to TURN around and choose again. I am sure that most of the time you life has been a living hell, and you have just learned to suffer it willingly. It does not have to be this way any more...
(Please forgive my wordiness- I really do feel embarrassed -not at what I am saying (for it has been my truth), but in asking you to sift through this growing tale!)
As you may see, I think I had you pegged after a few paragraphs. You clearly stated what you did, why you did it, and your continued choice of it.
Now for the "interesting" and perhaps more relevant part. As I young person -perhaps before my religious problem, I and a friend were out in my parent's front yard one evening gazing at the stars. We decided to wish with all our might that if there were "spacemen" they would come and let us ride with them. After going in the house and sitting in the kitchen (it was late and everyone was in bed) I heard my name called -but it was perplexing as it sounded as though the voice which spoke it was INSIDE my head!
A child's mind is an amazing thing. So plastic, easily swayed, so simply mystified. They yearn for the unusual, and if not granted them in sufficient measure, they will create it for themselves. You see, what you think is possibly most "relevant" is the least relevant (IMHO). As I have told you, I have had many voices, both from good and bad sources. I have also had a very vivid imagination. These things might be fascinating, but they are best avoided.
Not wanting to acknowledge this I went into the next room as if someone in the family had called out -but there was no one else there. I quickly left that area of the house and went to my room -denial is pretending it didn't happen and everything is alright. Years later, during my agonizing marriage where I was so despondent I often contemplated suicide -and the realization that my two youngest children NEEDED me to protect them (to some degree) from my second oldest and my wife -may have been the only thing which prevented me from "escaping", (I can't re member how close to exploring these thoughts it happened) I heard the voice in my mind call my name twice. I lay still awaiting further developments but nothing more happened.
I see what you are saying, you weren't a happy camper - understood. Interesting choice of words - agonizing marriage... Again, thoughts of suicide, voices in your head, best avoided.
Because of the circumstances of my life I had decided that if there was re-incarnation, I would refuse to return and I often expressed this sentiment. I had a dream in which I was being released from prison, and at the doorway the warden forcefully thrust a book into my midsection. I asked what it was. He replied that it was the rulebook. I said I didn't need it because I was getting out. He replied - Read it! Learn it! You WILL be back! Dreams, voices, etc. - especially when you circumstances are bad, should be ignored and avoided like the plague. (Just where do you suspect that such dreams and voices come from when your entire view is facing AWAY FROM GOD, away from "good", away from where you are supposed to be going?
I immediately awoke and knew beyond any doubt in my own mind that a message had very purposefully been conveyed to me. It was from that moment on that I determined to discover all I could about "the rules" and spent years exhaustively studying any and all things which seemed pertinent that I could get my hands on. One of my interests had always been history. I had been drawn to ancient history -the earliest known beliefs, religious ideas of cultures which had gone before. I wanted to discover what I could of what men thought/knew before the appearance of the Christian church. I had read most of what was available through the "orthodox" textbooks and had always scoffed at "the other things" as idiocy and nonsense.
Interesting. Because of a dream, you modify your actions (take a sideroad) and spend much effort pursuing "the rules". Very interesting. I should like to know what rules you found, their precedence of priority, and the resultant effects if they are followed / disobeyed. I spent many years seeking "The Truth" (the original title of OMGAYTTM) and read many books and amassed a huge mountain of knowledge after getting out from under my earthly father's domination and throwing away the religion he had forced on me. I decided to go and find The Truth for myself, and I sincerely doubted that it was the stuff he had burdened me with... but that's another story!
I now have some rules I live by - 20. There is a mission statement, and then the rules are the tools we use to accomplish the mission statement. They are called the Rules of the Penielite Order (A lay order of Love and Service to God and our fellow journeymen here in this life.) Few ever pursue the life of perfection of Loving God as we do, but you might be interested in these rules that I live by. (They are mentioned in the OMG book.)
But very slowly as I expanded my research I discovered more and more which caused me to suspend my judgment. After years of study and research, I was amazed to realize that there seems to have been much of a very deep and pure spiritual nature which had been marginalized and sanitized. I came across the accounts (new to me at the time) of outright manipulation of documents and beliefs by various factions for various reasons. I was amazed at how widespread the " original perennial spirituality" had been.
Yes, I am well aware of the Gilgamesh tales and the previous commandments. I am also familiar with the writings of the early Christian Fathers that the Nicene Council decided to leave out of the new testament. I know all about Clement of Rome, Polycarp, Athenagoras and Ireneaus. Now if you are talking earlier Greek stuff, yeah I know about them too. My "fool in the cave" is almost a mirroring of Aristotle's "Natural man". If you go back to the edge of recorded history, then we have the Egyptians and the Mesopotamians (I much prefer the Mesopotamians - they were real deep spiritually.) And even further back we get tales and legends handed down from pre-history. This is all well and adds volumes to the mountain of shit that I piled up for myself looking to find The Truth in it. After a few years, I read one of the last books I would ever read (for then I started writing instead) and the Zen Master whom wrote it struck a chord in me and in the time it takes to smile, I was enlightened (in the Zen way.) Even at that early age of 23, and with so odd a tool as a Zen koan, God touched me. In 1980, while in Korea, one of the Buddhist Priests was very surprised to meet a young, Christian, WESTERN master.
Now, after having looked it all over, I count all of this as loss! All of the things I learned merely complicated my mind. All of the powers I gained merely distracted my true purpose. All of the truths I found, disguised The Truth (again - read the Blind Men and the Elephant poem - very pertinent.) But you must ask yourself these simple question: WHY do I want this? WHAT will I do with it? HOW will I use it? Typically, if we are honest with ourselves, it is NOT for the Greater Glory of God (G.G.G.) that we seek these things, nor to see Him more clearly, follow Him more nearly, nor Love Him more dearly that we pursue these things. If a thing is NOT NECESSARY for these (GGG, sHmc,fHmn, LHmd) that in Truth it is NOT worth pursueing... unless you are just wasting time.
Among other things, I studied the Seth material, the Conversations with God series. I became aware of a much vaster system of belief and state of being. The rationale for creation and the various "roles" "we" play, and a concept which became very interesting to me was the concept of the "evolution of the soul (as CWG might phrase it), and coming from a totally different perspective( but with yet the same idea) was Seth's "value fulfillment" - that in essence we are sparks of God, we come from "out of" God and begin the journey of re-increasing our level of conscious awareness until we reach the total immersion again with our point of origin(perhaps through slow meticulous study, perhaps through instantaneous "enlightenment). In CWG it was stated that "enlightenment" could be gradual or arrive all at once in one life time. The reason I refer so much to this will be made more clear in what follows.
Yeah, I figured. Anything to avoid the simple and inevitable conclusion that you must now again face... "Evolution of the soul" indeed. Since the soul (personality) has no parts, and cannot be touched or effected / affected from the physical world, and since it is immortal and will never die, and since it is immutable (being made of the same "substance" as God Himself) how is it that the "soul" evolves (changes over time.) I suspect they have dragged you down that old "reincarnation" gig. Sometimes I am amazed at how complex a system of relations we attempt to believe in to avoid the simple Truth that deep down, we know. If we have to go there, I will explain to you the illogic of reincarnation, but I suspect with the enlightenment Dad should send you in this response that it won't be necessary. There was a small mountain valley community that had a very dangerous road going up the mountain above their town. So many cars fell over the edge that they didn't have enough ambulances to take them all to the hospital. They had two proposals to alleviate the bad situation: 1 - build better guardrails along the mountain or 2 - purchase another ambulance. Since the new ambulance was much cheaper than the guard rails, they wisely chose to purchase the new ambulance. Eventually, as the traffic increased, they purchased more ambulances to keep up with the accident victims.
I seemed to be moving along nicely in acting from a beingness of love and to borrow such over worked terms -it became more and more commonplace and then quite natural to "raise my kundalindi energy" which might also be somewhat stated as raising the level of conscious awareness. The BIG EVENT occurred as follows: one day I "had the sudden realization" that my "intuition" was becoming very strong. In my marriage there were always financial problems centering on my wife's health problems and spending habits. I decided to go to a casino and see if I could do something about the finances using my "intuition". (I had been previously -my mother had asked me to take her on a regular basis -but we both always lost and I had all but decided not to go again.) I let my intuition guide me to a slot machine and after a period of time hit a nice jackpot. Afterwards, I continued "trying out" this possible new area of "ability", but with not a great deal of continual success afterwards.Then I remember playing a machine which would "hit" a hundred dollar payoff, then take it all back, then hit again and I remember thinking, if only I knew when to play it -then a voice again in my mind said I'll tell myself when to play.-It was like the episodes of my name being called -it was nothing to do with the "normal me". After that, this voice would suddenly say things to me such as "Stop, go down to the second floor (as I followed its direction it would continue) Turn right. Go forward turn left, turn around, play this machine and the machine would immediately pay out several hundred dollars -sometimes before I could even gather in the coins I would be directed to a second machine which hit immediately. The voice was not continuous, but came at unexpected times. I had no feeling of any good or evil presence-and somehow it seemed to be "me" speaking to myself. (In retrospect it is bizarre that I was never "dialogged with on other topics nor was I directed to any thing but quarter machines and never for more than a few hundred dollars' jackpot. But it continued and I was able to pay our bills and even have a small amount of money for extras and emergencies. I am still trying to figure out exactly what this was. God does work in mysterious ways, but if it were he, why not speak of something more important than small things such as little slot machine payoffs? The voice soon stopped, but I found I could simply look at a machine and know if it was ready to pay out ( please take this seriously -as stupid as it all sounds!) That phase passed and I felt if I (for lack of a better word) concentrated on altering my consciousness (which I became adept at for a while) I would lead myself right to a machine which would "hit" and after stopping concentrating found that I could feel literal tugging at my solar plexus area pulling me to a machine that would "hit". I remember an earlier dialog in my head where the voice told me the day and time to board to hit a jackpot, which would be in the thousands. I often wondered if all this was just to get my attention/just to help me financially/ -or (and here might be a key) afterwards, I had decided to use this ability and go for large jackpots to ease the financial future for quite awhile down the road( do more than just marginally get by) and deliberately made the decision instead of being led to jackpots as they arose, I would seek out bigger jackpots even if it meant waiting for them. Successful at first, I over-reached myself (-Faust?). And would play "the right machine" but after awhile begin to doubt and give up only to see it "hit" soon afterward by someone else. I had even been able to directed-dream - to receive the info the night before in a dream as to which machine would hit -it worked -the only problem (like the lamp's three wishes) were I couldn't tell how long I would have to wait before it hit and often gave up too soon. Then I would become frustrated and angry (I had become so caught up in this -all with the best of intentions and purpose at the start) that I couldn't see how this was slowly replacing my woodland idylls and "quiet time". Eventually I wound up "wasting time and money" and (as I know see) the way I chose and let myself become engulfed in this "winning money" thing was causing the frustration to turn into anger and feelings of having been set up and "betrayed". I (ashamedly I tell you this -) found a deep inner anger dominating my life and I spent many an hour cursing "the powers that be" with all my might -terrible blaspheming!
Well, isn't this a fine mess you got yourself into. Remember what I said about certain "powers" and "abilities" not being "appropriate". I do not doubt that you achieved such abilities... the real question should be - "From where do these powers come" and again, is this for the GGG, sHmc, fHmn, or LHmd? I suspect that it was exactly those whom you are facing on you path that have given you these toys to play with. Did you like the outcome? Don't you know that MONEY is NEVER an issue for God. The very first way to tell if someone is "with God" or not is to see what he charges! (I'll bet if you wrote Neale he would be happy to have you come to one of his seminars... for free? Seth would gladly take you under his wing and assist you personally... for free?) Jesus / God does NOT need for his teachers here on earth to earn a living for THEM! The minute you start charging for what God has given you, you make what God has given you worthless. Oh, it's OK to advertise (like writing a book that others can buy to gain the insight in it), but then, AFTER you have them interested, what does it cost them to get more from you personally. No true saint, mystic, guru, teacher or master that I have ever know, heard of, or read of has ever charged "money" for their services. Sure, some of them will allow you to make donations, but they would usually prefer that you donate the money to some other place. They NEVER seek your financial assistance, for to do so is an automatic condemnation of whatever they might teach (even though it might be divinely inspired in the beginning!) My seminars, discussion groups and workshops (which go into far greater details about life and relationships that the books do) which are given by me personally, and have been done so now for over 25 years, have never been charged for. No would they ever be. I would suspect that Neale has made millions from those that pursue more of what he offered in his books. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being wealthy, but there is a great deal wrong with how some people make their fortune. I have always offered everything I have for free. Even the book you bought is available for free! (I appreciate your purchasing it, for it has brought you to me!) But, if you asked for one free, I would happily give it to you. Just like the time I am spending with you here. I am suspicious that Neale or Seth would not offer "free" guidance that may take, as I have said, several months of our time. So, by their fruits you shall know them. Those whom make a good living off of your spiritual soul-searching should remain dubious in their motives, and this should call the whole message presented into question. Jesus never made a fortune from his works, and when He needed money, a gold coin from the mouth of a caught fish would suffice. Neale should do more fishing and less "teaching" - IMO.
especially as I looked at all the events of my entire life with all the pain and suffering and trauma -which seemed to have been unending. I had also been very disappointed when, after reading A Course on Miracles, I believed that I had been ready to yield the ego side of me up to God -and when I made that commitment, I was flabbergasted that nothing happened/changed
So, you switch from new-age philosophy to Christian philosophy and while still obstinately turning you back on God, you somehow expect the outcome to be different? You are a plethora of denial, aren't you?
- perhaps I have learned that our appraisal of our readiness cannot be trusted -"all in God's time-?) As the anger grew (of course) the feeling of being a center of love( and projecting that) dried up totally ( I now realize to a fuller extent, the implication of Christ's comments about the rich man and the eye of a needle!). Severe depression, yet anger at God or whatever. I have come through it enough to now realize all this and to realize that even if "conditions" "led" me to these actions, I had allowed it and chose the path and chose the anger and even hatred and chose to blame something else other than myself. Before quite reaching bottom I several times was able to "turn it around" -but yet used the slot machines as a "test" of where I was -strangely enough it seemed just when I got frustrated enough to quit playing this game (several times) on almost my "last" attempt a huge jackpot would appear from nowhere -but yet would over time disappear into the machines and whenever I was about to stop again, another big "hit -as though on the very last throw "something" was making sure I DIDN'T"T stop. Well, eventually I did, but the anger, feelings of being set up and betrayed and all that had their toll (of course!) on my spiritual life. I am still uncertain as to how/why these "miraculous" powers came or went. And, even though it is said that in avoiding judging others, we must also refrain from judging ourselves, the belief that God does offer a relationship to us - with the result that if it is not being experienced, it is because of a failing on our part - well this realization makes it very difficult to avoid feeling oneself a remarkable failure - and "obviously" very unworthy! The idea does enter my mind that whatever I am trying to reach/be/attain/accomplish in this life maybe something that for whatever reason, I just cannot attain. That if the lack of such realization exists, then I have failed to do what is "required" -a very sobering thought, indeed. And yet there are still moments where I really do feel I should just "be me", take life as it comes and what is destined to happen will happen or it won't!
Let me again point you to where you well know you must eventually go. You said, "I have failed to do what is 'required'". and I whole-heartedly agree. You do see the answer, I suspect. If you were that simple child from long ago, whom made a wrong choice, and you were honest with yourself and answered, "What would God want me to do to amend this wrong I have done?" - What would you answer yourself?
This (thank heavens) brings us to the reason I posed you the question about God creating intervening levels of "personhood" According to Walsch and Seth it is the way creation functions -multi-layered with "us" here being a fraction of the "higher-self" we are part of. And that higher self being part of a higher self all the way back to the Source.If there is only God , why would He have led me into all this knowing the outcome? Was it the "natural" evolution of "me" toward my higher self and the resultant use of inherent (but usually latent) abilities?
Well, pilgrim, I'll tell ya. NONE! There is no evolution of your multi-layered personhood intervening betwixt God and your current manifestation of your aura-powered lower-self (all puns intended.) Your "resultant use" of these powers will git ya into heaps 'n gobs of trouble, jez like they did befur! Now, as a simple child of God whom made a mistake and because of this simple mistake turned away from God many years ago, how do you think you go about reconciling this breach? Was it an "entity" of some sort to either get vicarious entertainment, or working for my eventual "downfall" Trying to answer these questions seemed to have much importance for me -perhaps pointing to "the Truth".
I don't think these guys were pointing you toward "The Truth". You decide what kind of tree it was based on the fruits you got from it? I KNOW these abilities were not part of me as the "normal" human being -I am not sure where they came from or why .(I have been wrong so many times in my life about so many things I "knew" to be true, that I now hold almost everything with a grain of salt/in abeyance-but I don't think THE devil; exists -but there are beings of evil-intent:-maybe that is hairsplitting -I firmly believe that the only Hell is the one we create - which lasts only as long as we continue to create it.)
Again, their most prevalent lie: We do NOT exist! We are not here! We did not say this! You do not have to worry about us! (And then they like to top it off by telling you: There is plenty of time!) If you were raised Catholic then I can only assume that you were taught what Catholic children are taught from the Catholic Catechism. If you were taught about Satan and demons, and you "accepted" this as true at that time (as I suspect you would have), then something between then and now has changed your opinion regarding their existence. I know Walsh proposes that there is no evil, nor devil, except of our own making. (I figure he is in for somewhat of a shock when he talks to Dad and finds out just whom he was really talking to in his books.) I doubt that Neale alone could have convinced you against you early Catholic Faith regarding the existence of them "bad boys" in the "burning room". It might well be a moot point here, but we may discuss this in the future if it becomes a necessity.
So, I again apologize for the length of this, and hope I have done "the right thing" in determining to present this to you. Again, I say that in the beginning my motives were of good intent, but realize how this was my downward slide. Knowing how much you love "Dad" I would rather not have told you of my anger and cursing -but I own it and now believe even that may have been a necessary part of the road I am on. I am not proud of it, but do own up to it.
Trust me, your anger and cursing and all of your evil has in no way deterred Him from pursuing you, out of His love for you. If He gets me involved, unless you are just a total spiritual-burnout already, you will make positive and quick progress. I do not say it is going to be easy for you, but simple. Let me say that throughout my life (even though perhaps in broken seegments) I have sought to do the good and become what I should be. At times things have stuck out and have registered in me as almost a knowing -for instance, in high school the line of "hiding your light under a bushel" hit me and I knew it was an admonition which drove me to service -and also caused regret that I wouldn't, then couldn't follow a political service life. The dream of the book -I knew what it meant (to me re-incarnation is the only thing that makes sense if the soul evolves slowly and one does not "make it in one life time". Another thing that seemed ordinary but personally hit me like a ton of bricks at the time (30-40 years ago) and still comes up in times of difficulty is: "Our greatest glory is not in never having fallen, but in falling each time rising up again" - it almost seemed to tell me life would be very difficult on a continuing cyclical basis and my task was to persevere and rise each time - but oh, the pain and the frustration and the depression!. The last "fall" has been the most difficult for it involved falling from the highest height I had been able to reach in this lifetime( I am not referring to a "special gift for gambling, but the state of loving-being I continually operated from prior to falling from all that) -at times I didn't think I could do it again, haltingly, slowly, I have started in jerks and fresh falls, but I am determined -I shall not waste the opportunity of this life. I may never "make it", but I will hopefully continue to make the attempt to keep putting one foot in front of the other for as long as I can. If I fall again, I hope to muster the strength to learn from it, and to get up once again -for however long it takes. Even as I write this, I am "amazed to "hear myself" tell myself "truths" I had forgotten. Well. I have spent too much time on this (especially in view of your comment about "simplicity" "being a virtue" - well, at least as far as The Truth is concerned!), please accept this as coming from my best intentions so that by this reading you may better decide your course of action from this point.
God is a loving Father (as I know He is) and you have done something which really pissed Him off at you. I suspect you may see this now. You know exactly and precisely what it would take to change His opinion of you and begin to se you as a "friend" of His, rather than someone whom has turned his back on Him.
OK, since we are at the close, I will ask you instead, "What is your course of action from this point." I suspect that Dad should have made it painfully clear abover what YOU should DO. Now, You tell me and let's see if we continue from here, or if this is "too hard a thing for you to hear" and will instead part from my company over it.
May God give you the clarity to see what He wants of you, and the courage and strength to choose to do what He reveals to you.
(Shoot - it might even be easier than having confessed all of this to me!?)

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Tue, Dec 09, 2003 10:47 am

Subject:

Dear Peniel,

The most difficult part of this was "deciding" which definition of each item is referred to, I generally assumed the "popularly" held belief was the point in question.

Each item starts: "Do I believe and accept as true that:..." (It must be YES or NO, but can have clarifications)

1.) There is/may be a Creator.
    Yes.

2.) There is/may be a God for me (not a God someone else showed me, told me about, or taught me of)
    Yes.

3.) There is/may be a Higher Intelligence  non-human than us
    Yes

4.) There is/may be more than one Creator
    Yes, but perhaps only One Prime Source Creator

5.) There is/may be more than one God for me
    Yes, but the Prime Source Creator would have "offspring" being co-creators of certain "areas": such as a scientist might "engineer" a "new" life form.

6.) There is/may be more than one Higher Intelligence non-human being
    Yes

7.) There is/may be non-human, non-angelic (angels and demons), non-earthly intelligent beings (aliens)
    Yes

8.) There is/may be contact between us (human earthlings) and these aliens
    Yes

9.) There is/may be aliens very similar in nature, personality and composition to us on other worlds, with history like ours
    Yes

10.) There is/may be a heaven (a place of eternal happiness where some humans will ultimately reside)
      No, unless this is taken as a general statement that death is not the end and that beyond this realm of the third dimension, "we" continue to "increase our conscious awareness" that we are "divine sparks" with the potential to "grow" to greater and greater "spiritual awareness". There is no "physical static place", and the
      only  residing  would be if one were to "merge" again with the Godhead.

11.) There is/may be a hell (a place of eternal unhappiness where some humans will ultimately reside)
      No, if this is meant as an eternal state of mind or place. I feel God" has too much love and power to present unlimited opportunities of "salvation" to "those parts of "Himself" still "in distress".

12.) There is/may be "other" eternal places, other than these 2 that we are unaware of
      Yes

13.) There is/may be more than one of me (as a individual person) [e.g. I am not necessarily a unique personality]
      No, in the sense of absolutely identical, since diverse experiences have an effect on us, but yes, the "me" I presently experience could be  a "portion" of a much more expansive "me"/"me's".

14.) There is/may be more than one earthly life-cycle that I must/can go through (reincarnation)
      Yes

15.) There is/may be more than one earthly life-cycle that I must/can go through and as different species (birds, plants, us)
      No. It would be  "possible", but there would be no "value" in choosing such an option.

16.) There is/may be 'spiritual forces' that are there to help me
      Yes

17.) There is/may be 'spiritual forces' that are there to hurt me
      Yes

18.) There is/may be a 'leader' of these spiritual forces on both sides
      There may.

19.) There is/may be a purpose for my life (separate and individual from all others)
      Yes

20.) There is/may be a way for me to discover this purpose for my life
      Yes

21.) The nature of the Creator is a loving father
      Yes, but I don't understand this relationship in the specific case of finite "me"

22.) The Creator's chosen role with us is that of a loving father
      Yes, but same qualification as above

23.) The Creator cares about my daily problems and concerns
      Yes, but same qualification

24.) The Creator wants me to have success, well-being and good-fortune
      Yes, same qualification

25.) The Creator has the power to assist me
      Yes

26.) The Creator, like us, has His own individual personality
      Yes, but I am not sure "personality" is the best word to describe this.

27.) The Creator, like us, has certain things that He likes, and other things that He dislikes
    Yes, but I would term it "preferences"

28.) The Creator, like us, has the power to choose to do as He wants
      Yes

29.) The Creator, unlike us, never lies
      Yes, but in teaching, would present things in a "limited" way, which would be best understood by those receiving the information

30.) The Creator, unlike us, keeps his promises
      Yes

(in relation to the above, I would like to say that almost everything indicated is merely a "belief", which I currently maintain. As such, they can change with the next bit of information or "inspiration". Concerning the above, perhaps the only things I KNOW are:

1.) That non-contemporary human society "space"craft exist.
That I have had "contact" with an intelligence which seems to exist beyond the "normal-me mind"- and it has demonstrated a knowingness which "I" lack( as well as insight into the future).

(To help you come up with many more of you own, consider that you have been given the task of determining what spiritual belief structure (religion) an intelligent alien has and what type of "Creator" he believes in (what is the nature of this being.) Pretend you are devising a set of simple questions to ask him to help clarify for me what this alien "believes".) I suspect that as you begin considering and answering these questions, you may receive some peace of mind (as you discard and remove those barriers you have placed between your mind and peace.)

After posing your questions from above I would further ask:

1.) Do you/What do believe was the reason that the Creator "created all of creation"?

2.) Do you/What do you believe concerning the Creator's purpose for your race/species?

3.) Do you/What do you believe concerning a general purpose for you as an individual?

4.) Do you/What do you believe concerning a specific purpose for you as an individual?

It seems to me that any further questions would depend on the direction "he" took in responding to the questions from your supplied list as well as my own. Questions concerning spirituality or religion would depend upon the answers to the preceding questions. Your wording indicates many more questions are expected, but…My mind has always been great for "deductive" reasoning, "inductive" has always been difficult for me. If you believe I should come up with more inquiries, I will resume.

 On a different note, you had earlier said I would discover something which would indicate to me if I were on the right path in contacting you. Sat. I was in school to decorate my room for Christmas and received an e-mail from my son. He has been in Iraq since the start of the war and is a sergeant in combat infantry. He is rather a "seeker", inspite of being so young and a soldier. Things have been getting to him and I at times try to reach within and write him something which touches his problem and "helps" him. In my letter were some lines which, although I had re-read them previously, "struck home" to me last night regarding the contact between you and I:
  … "I have read what you have written and understand your thoughts. I am also truly appreciative for the chance to search my soul and write what I hope are helpful things for you to read. It is a human trait that in the midst of the hurricane, we all need those friends who are beyond the force of the winds in order to anchor us and remind us of things pushed from the forefront of our thoughts. The only purpose of life is to serve (love) others, it is the only thing capable of filling the otherwise "unfillable" void."…

It suddenly struck me how parallel my role to you seemed to be!

Prior to that, on Friday, my entire drive home, I felt  "it" again -so much so that not only was I grinning from ear to ear, but I burst out laughing several times just from the shear joy "of it". Nature has always had a tremendous effect on me and I believe it all started at the beginning of my drive when I saw the sun  just bursting light from between bands of clouds ( and in a way, for me, the sun represents/is an aspect of "God"). The feeling of extreme joyous contentment lasted the entire 10 mile drive. I have had short periods of this  off and on, but wondered if this was "the" good "omen".

As I work out a response to you last email, please answer and clarify (if you feel it needs such) these questions for me, then add as many of your own as you will and answer them also. Send all of this to me and from that, we shall determine what further questions to ask or which direction to begin traveling.

  At this  point I really have no more comments or questions, so I will mail this to you. I have copied the e-mails and am in the processing of organizing it all into a binder. I have also re-read your book. Again, I am very much appreciative of your time and patience.

David

Submitted: Sat, Jan 10, 2004 11:50 am

Subject: missing email

Dear Peniel,

 I hope all is well with you. I have not heard from you in such a long while, I wonder if I might have somehow missed an e-mail?

Dave

Submitted: Sun, Jan 11, 2004 6:16 am

Subject: RE: missing email

David,

I think you did miss one. It follows this one immediately...

--Peniel

Submitted: Thu, Mar 18, 2004 6:49 am

Subject:

A guy had been isolated on an island in the South Pacific for 10 years.

He lit a signal every night for 10 years but no one saw it and none came to rescue him. Finally a passing boat did notice the signal and sent an officer and men in a small boat to investigate.

The castaway explained that he had been on this island for 10 years waiting to be rescued.  The boat captain ask "If you are all alone, what are those three huts I see built in the lagoon?

He answered "The first hut is my home. The second hut is where I go to church.

And the third hut is where I went to church before I got mad and changed churches ..."

Submitted:

Subject:

A man lived in one of three huts in a lagoon on an island in the South Pacific (that he thought was devoid of other people).

One day, he heard on the radio that a severe typhoon was heading toward his island.

He prayed fervently to God, "God, my life is in danger, please save me from the flood!" to which the Lord answered him, "Because of your faith in crying out to me in your moment of despair, you shall surely be saved!"

The water came up to his hut's door. To his surprise, a man in a car came along and said, "Come with me. The storm is drawing nearer!" but the man said, "No. I will not come with you for God has promised that I shall be saved, and I trust in His Word, not in the deeds of men."

A short time later, when the water was up to the top of his hut, a boat came to the man now standing on his hut's straw roof. The boatman pleaded with the drenched hut-owner, "They said that you wouldn't come. Are you crazy! The water is coming heavy and high. Please come with me in the boat to safety!" but, again, the man refused saying, "I dare not doubt the Word of my God. I shall show Him that I trust in Him that He will keep His word and shall surely save me."

An hour later, the man is standing tippy-toe on top of his hut, the water now lapping at his neck. A helicopter comes and says, "Buddy, this is your last chance! Reach out your hand and I will pull you in and fly you to safety!" but, again, the man refused saying, "Do you tempt me to loose faith in my dear and beloved Savior in this most desperate hour of my life! No, be gone with you! I trust in my God that He will keep His word."

A few minutes later, the man drowns, and is then standing before God. "I can't believe that You let me down!" screams the disheartened man at God.

God then angrily replies, "Look, you stupid jerk, I sent you a car, a boat and a helicopter! What else do you EXPECT from Me?"

--Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Thu, Mar 18, 2004 9:45 am

Subject:

David,

I suspect that, for you, I might be the man in the helicopter...

--Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Thu, Mar 18, 2004 11:00 am

Subject:

Dear Peniel,

Thank you for continuing to think about me.

I have given your previous communication much thought. The crux of the message seemed to be that I would now know what needed to be done. I really
am not certain I understand what the step is which should be taken. It would seem to me that perhaps some sort of "turning"? or "religious" steps are intended?

Unless I have totally missed the message, let me state that I am no longer bound by the limited awareness of the "younger me's" at those stages of this personality's life. Religious doctrines are fine for those believe that is what they need, but I have come to believe "spirituality"(for lack of a better word) is a thing of a much more important nature than the various religions' institutions' diverse/varying/contradicting pronouncements. You mention the concept of "sin" - but I no longer believe in the doctrine commonly represented by that term. The usual definition of "sin" to me has been used by religions and has either intentionally or incidentally served to increase the power of the a-religious church structure, while dis-empowering human beings from any realization that  the (ultimate) Creator has given them the opportunity to "re"alize the potential of their spiritually-good nature. It makes no sense to me to believe humans arrive corrupted from the get-go by "original sin".

That seems a very deterministic way to pervert human potential from the beginning of an individual's life as well as marking all human activity as stemming from a flawed and corrupt nature. It lulls us into "forgetting" the true potential of human beings and human society. To those who choose to follow a "religious" path on their way to a potentially increased spirituality (whatever that may mean to them), I say, "Allow each soul to walk it's chosen path until such time a soul may ask questions of another pathway".

   In your book I recall reading not only of "sin", but of "punishment" for those who choose not to alter their paths. I would think a symbolic meaning might be hidden here as a "factual hell" would be something I would hold in the same light as "sin". Given free will, would an unenlightened "error" in judgment merit eternal punishment - with no hope of "parole" - by a loving God (and if "He" is not all-loving, then what would be the difference between such a "God" and "the Devil")

  These are all areas of thought, which I have been pondering before replying. Now that I have responded, what are your thoughts on these issues?

 Dave

Submitted: Thu, Mar 18, 2004 12:34 pm

Subject:

David,

I have recommended before that you consider reading another book I wrote (a novel) titled, "The Box" and I am sending it with this email. It was done in an old Adobe 4.0 PDF format, but it should still be readable in the newer Adobe versions.

PLEASE read at least a few pages, and then see if you want to read more. I think you will find it very interesting...


I will send you a reply email to yours with my comments soon.


Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Thu, Mar 18, 2004 5:19 pm

Subject:

David,

Unfortunately, this explanation is going to turn into a book-length treatise on truth, so I beg your pardon for its length as you did me before, and I ask your forgiveness for not being able to explain myself more clearly with less verbosity.

As before, I will take what you wrote and comment on it. I will comment in black (and blue for emphasis) and your text will be in red.

Before I start, I wish to again point out to you some truths that I have come to know, accept and live my life by. Some of these will be repeated later in the explanation, but I want to state them up front so that you will more clearly understand not only what I hold to be true, but also where I am ‘coming from' in my answers.

=============================================================== 

First, as you did for me, let me attempt to give you some pertinent details of my life's history.

I was born and raised in Shawnee, Oklahoma. My father was a devout Catholic, strong-willed and domineering. He taught us what he believed, which is what his father had believed, which is what his father had believed. He taught it so severely that it left a bad taste in my soul regarding it.

In my very early years (at about 7 or 8), not understanding the politically correct terms to use for various sexual experiences, during a confession I was making the local priest, he had grown weary of this child, each Saturday, using the same vulgar and graphic explanations of his sexual experiences. He said, 'There is a proper word to describe this act you are referring to and you should use that word instead of such graphic details. Do you understand?" I lied, 'Yes, father." But I did not understand. I didn't have the faintest idea what he was talking about. I only knew that my confession of this event made him very angry. I decided, fully aware of the implications, never to confess this sin again. I also knew how serious a sin this was, and understood that not confessing it caused all of my future confessions to be a farce and a lie. I also understood the gravity of this choice.

But, being the eighth of nine Catholic children in a very Catholic home, I decided to ‘play Catholic' for the rest of the time I was in that house. I played well. I felt very bad and guilty inside, but I kept up the appearances of a good Catholic boy. I dreaded and feared death, for if and when it would come, I clearly understood how my bad confessions coupled with my blasphemous Holy Communions were just all deepening both the guilt I felt while further distancing me from God and His grace. I was headed straight for hell, and I knew it. Yet, it seemed almost impossible to undo it… to admit the lie I had lived for years. I honestly believed that I had chosen the lesser of two evils.

Eventually, I graduated high school and went into the Air Force. After I got out from under my earthly father's domineering religious influence, I threw away my childhood and childish beliefs. I knew that there was no way that the loving and good God I knew must be could have wished upon me what my forced-upon-me church had done to me. I felt angry and resentful toward the Catholic Church and both its clergy and followers.

So, now I was free! Free to choose as I CHOOSE! I decided to disregard everything I had learned or been taught and to seek the Real TRUTH myself. I also avoided all of what I considered ‘biased' opinions regarding the subjects I pursued.

From 1975 to 1979 I read over a thousand books. The librarians use to joke that they were going to fix me up a cot in the back room because I spent so much time there. After all of that seeking, I came to realize that I was not able to find 'The Truth" in those books. I gave up my quest – or at least, I decided that I was obviously on the wrong path by seeking it in books. Oh, I learned a great deal… but only information – no wisdom, no enlightenment. Many truths… but not The TRUTH. I lie in bed one night in 1979 and fervently begged God to show me the TRUTH. His Truth, not someone else's opinion about truth. I had the strange premonition that my prayer was not only accepted, but was about to be answered.

I decided to start over, and keep it as simple as I could. I knew what God was like: He was a loving and caring Father. My very being knew and attested to this, my only ‘known truth. I then considered my former childhood upbringing and wondered why He had put me through all of that? Why would a loving Father send such agony to one of His loved children? Why would He so unjustly punish me and cause me such guilt for so many years?

I decided that there were 2 BIG QUESTIONS for my life, and everything else was determined and subservient to the answers to these 2 Big Questions:

1.) Is there really a God (Creator)?

2.) And, if so, what does He want / desire / demand / request of me?

I then considered all that I had read over the last five years. It was quite clear to me that my belief about BQ#1 was an absolute YES. I don't think that there are very many people whom do not accept the existence of some ‘higher being' whom was the source of ‘all this stuff' and even ‘us'. It becomes quite natural for me then to view this ‘Creator' as the highest good (God) and as a loving Father. This is the one truth I have always ‘known' deep in my heart by my very existence, the only needed proof of which WAS my very existence. HE loved me, therefore I AM.

=============================================================== 

BUT, WHO IS HE? What is He like? What does He want?

I had learned through my studies that ‘religion' was man's search for the Truth about God (Creator). Indeed, since science chose in general to not deal with ‘HIM', religion was the next best source for Truth about Him.

I realized that among all of the world's major religions (which I had studied in minute detail) that only two or three of them were reasonable, logical, and agreed with the universal truths that make themselves self-evident to all who seek truth. So, now I had a choice between Judaism and Christianity (with a possible fallback to Zen Buddhism if both those fail the test of Truth.)

I knew all of the ‘historical' truths regarding both Jews and Christians, and had weeded out almost all of the possibilities that were not verifiable outside of their own historical slants.

OK, Jew, or Christian? Well, the Christians were all Jews at one point in time, and the first Christians had to be Jewish before they were allowed to be Christian. So it didn't seem that these were necessarily ‘opposing' religions. In fact, with the exception of ‘who is Jesus', historically the Christians have always accepted the ancestry and beliefs of the Jews.

So, I had come to The TWO SMALL QUESTIONS that was to determine the course of my remaining spiritual life. I had years before vowed and promised God that if He would eventually reveal The Truth to me, that I would accept it and live the rest of my life in that way.

SQ#1: 'Who is this Jesus?"

SQ#2: 'What does He have to do with me, my life, my beliefs, my choices, etc."

I pondered Jesus, historically and with just facts regarding Him and His life (ignoring the bible, the Catholic teachings, the Christian traditions, and the Jewish writings regarding Him.) A crucified carpenter, born in Bethlehem, raised in Egypt, resident of Nazareth, accused of religious heresy and rabble-rousing, crucified by the Romans, current whereabouts: unknown. These were the only ‘unbiased' facts, along with a few things reported about what He had done and said, unverifiable.

I decided that there were just three possibilities regarding Jesus:

1.) He was a Lunatic

2.)    He was a Liar

3.)    He was The Lord (that He claimed to be.)

Like I said, that night in late April of 1979 as I lay in bed I fervently begged God to show me the TRUTH. I had a very strong premonition that my prayer was not only accepted, but was about to be answered. It seemed almost as if I heard ever-so-quite laughter as I passed from wake to sleep. My last thoughts before I fell asleep was a Zen koan from the last book I had read (which made me decide to stop looking in books.) The story is here in blue… (See the end of Chapter 5 and the beginning of Chapter 6 in the book, 'The Box".

A Zen Master asked his disciple, 'What is most important to you? What do you seek above all else?"

'TRUTH," came the swift and firm answer.

'Why?" asked the master.

'Does not the truth bring power?" asked the disciple.

'Indeed, the truth IS power!" explained the master.

'Then Truth is my goal."

The master continued, 'Are you sure, for such a valuable goal as Truth might have a terrible price attached to its attainment."

'I need it more than the very air I breathe. The very thought of it consumes my soul and mind constantly. I can think of nothing else," explained the disciple.

At this point of remembering the story from the book, I fell asleep - yet the story continued with ME now as the Disciple and The Ancient One as the master.

Calmly, the master said, 'Very well, follow me. I will show it to you."

He rose, smiled, then stretched forth his staff in front of him. We were transported to a beautiful forest, standing on a well-trod path. I smelled salty sea-spray in the cool air.

I thought, Is he nuts? How's he gonna show me the Ultimate Truth? Is he gonna show me a tree and say that's The Truth? Slowly, he began walking down the path, gazing up at the trees and birds. I followed.

We strolled down the path for several hundred yards, and it opened out on a beautiful beach beside the ocean. Roaring waves crashed on the shore. He strolled casually along the beach for a while, looking at the sky and water.

More thoughts came into my mind. He's flipped. That's it. He's gonna pick up a seashell, and try to convince me it's the Ultimate Truth. I don't get it.

Again, I remained silent about my many doubts and followed, thinking he was playing some game with me?

The Ancient One turned and waded out into the ocean. The second his feet touched the water, it became suddenly still. I was astounded at this extraordinary event, standing in awe, then followed him into the now calm water.

I don't get him. What's he up to? Surely there's no truth out here. What's he gonna do, show me a fish and say that's The Truth? There's no truth here that's not everywhere else. I really think he's flipped this time.

I decided it was time to voice my doubts. I came up close behind him. We were about waist deep in the water. 'Master, I don't und..."

SLAM!

He grabbed me in the middle of a word and thrust me under the water. I was caught completely off guard. I hadn't had time to close my mouth before the plunge. I fought to get free. His grip tightened as I struggled. A flood of thoughts came to mind. I was right! He's gone insane, and he's trying to kill me. I've gotta break free and get away.

Just then he pulled me out. I gasped for breath, trying to speak. I was only out of the water a second when he plunged me down again. I struggled fervently to break his hold, but my efforts were futile. Thoughts raced through my mind, all regarding the fact that The Ancient One had somehow snapped and was crazy. I planned how to break his hold if he raised me up again.

A few moments passed, he did raise me, and I tried my plan. It failed and again I was thrust back under the water. This time, for what seemed an eternity. My life flashed before my eyes.

I received a flash of insight. OH NO! He's going to kill me and upon dying, I will see The Ultimate Truth. NO! I don't want to die!

I decided to stop struggling the instant the thought came to me. Suddenly, he released his hold on me and walked away.

I came up sputtering, gasping for air. I looked up. He was slowly walking out of the water. I heard him laugh nonchalantly, and I was hit with another of those inner lights. As usual, I didn't know what it meant. I stood a minute, drenching wet, my jeans and sweatshirt clinging to me and watched him. He left the water, walked across the beach to a nearby palm tree, where he sat down in its shade. He was smiling.

The waves had started again. I walked out of the water, then over to where he sat. He was drawing pictures in the sand with a stick. I sat down beside him, my face red with anger.

I jumped up, did a little dance, reached inside my shirt, and pulled out a crab that had just pinched my nipple. I threw it down angrily, feeling very foolish, as I picked seaweed out of my hair.

After a few quiet minutes, he calmly asked, 'So, tell me, when we were in the forest—what were you thinking about?"

'I thought you were flipping out."

'And what did you think about along the beach?"

'The same thing. I thought you were crazy. I wondered why we had left the mountain. I didn't think you could show me the Truth here."

'I see. And what did you think when we first waded out in the water?" he posed with a wide grin.

'The same thing."

He paused. The lesson was forthcoming. He looked me directly in the eyes, 'And tell me what you thought about when you were down there, under the water."

'Well, I really thought you were insane then. I thought about breaking free and all kinds of things."

'What else?"

'I saw my life flash before my eyes and I figured it out."

'What?"

'Why you were trying to kill me."

'And what then?"

'I thought you were going to kill me and in that way I would finally get to see the Ultimate Truth. That's when I stopped struggling."

'And did you wish to die?"

'No. I wanted to live."

'While you were under water—what did you need?"

'Well, I needed air?"

'Did you think about air much?"

'Yeah, a great deal!"

'And while you were down there, did you need—Truth?"

Slowly, I began to see what he was driving at. I stammered, 'Uh, no. I didn't need it, I don't guess?"

'Oh, how do you know?"

'Because if I really did need it, I would have thought about it some."

'Did you think about The Truth much?"

'No, hardly at all."

'And not an hour ago, you said you needed and wanted this Ultimate Truth more than your very life, more than the air you breathe."

'Yeah, I guess I was mistaken. I really want to live more than to find The Truth."

He smiled widely. 'I am happy you now understand this. This is the truth I brought you here to see, not the Ultimate Truth, but the truth that you did not yet desire it sincerely."

'But how did you know?" I asked.

He looked at me compassionately, then said, 'My son, when you really desire the Ultimate Truth that much, He shall come to you and instantly reveal Himself. You shall not have to seek Him at all. This is how I knew you were mistaken in saying what you did. If you truly needed Truth more than air you would already possess Him."

===============================================================

Here, the dream ended, or so it seemed…

It was a very strange night: I don't remember sleeping. I honestly can't say whether my mind or personality was asleep or awake, here or elsewhere. I only know that as time passed, my mind clarified for itself much that was foggy before.

I realized that the answer to Big Question #2 was to answer Small Question #1. What God wanted from me was to decide (for myself) whom Jesus was!

Well, BQ1 and BQ2 are now rolled into SQ1. This makes sense, since one of Jesus' claims was that He and The Father (Creator – God) were ONE.

I also was certain that Jesus was neither a liar nor a lunatic. I had made that choice without any effort at all. I only then decided, HE was MY LORD! I now only had to determine what Jesus was REALLY LIKE, and which denomination He had established.

It dawned on me that THE TRUTH was merely ‘The Truth ABOUT Jesus Christ' – a very profound wisdom for my young age. In reality (truth) – HE… was TRUTH. I now understood for the first time in my life His statement that He was: The TRUTH, the way and the life. (Okay, I still wasn't certain about the way and the life, but I had no doubts that HE was indeed this TRUTH that I had been so desperately seeking for the last five years…)

===============================================================

The very next morning, HE ARRIVED!

He showed up and revealed Himself to me, directly. It only lasted about 30 seconds in all, but it changed my life and me completely. I do not often speak of this event that gave me my very name, for it is too painful to remember. But, He called me by my name, Peniel, and then He made me look into His eyes. In that brief moment of communion, I saw EVERYTHING clearly. It was as if blinders were removed from my eyes and what had always before been perceived as if through a dark and distorted glass, now was crystal clear and sharp. TRUTH became my ever-present companion.

This coupled with the electrifying shock that coursed through my entire body whilst my eyes were captured in His, left quite an impression on me. So much so that I eagerly pursued death afterwards in the sure hope of again seeing Him revealed as He was then.

Well, let me shorten and tell you that once you meet Truth, there remains no room for any doubt. Pure love casts out all fear, pure light removes all darkness.

For those whom He does not appear directly to, I propose that you answer for yourself the 2 Big and Small questions rolled into the one: 'Who is Jesus?" and if you come to same conclusions that I already had, then it becomes impossible to escape Christianity (as was my original aim!)

Once I accepted Christianity as the ‘correct' way (assuming that one has already decided that Jesus was real, and was neither a liar or a lunatic) then it is a simple matter of determining which of the various Christian denominations is the ‘correct' one. (Understand that in this context, by ‘correct' I mean 'TRUE".)

I used the same method, unbiased facts regarding the origins of these various denominations. I wanted to find what denomination within that religion was the "correct" one for me to practice. I figured there were three possibilities here:

1.) Find one that appealed to my current beliefs, feelings, and chosen lifestyle
2.) Return to the one that God chose for me to be raised and taught in (Catholicism)
3.) Find the denomination the He Himself founded, established and gave authority and power to (the 'Correct" one)

Well, as I sought the Truth, I chose to pursue #3. Again, a short trip to my local library for some more "unbiased" facts. I looked up the major 12 Christian Denominations (I figured the "True" one would probably have a lot of members, so I stuck with the largest 12 by membership, figuring the True One would certainly be among them.)

My credentials for finding the True Denomination: very simple:

1.) What was the name of the person whom "supposedly" founded this denomination
2.) What was the year that this denomination was established
3.) Did this denomination "Break Off" from some already established Christian Group
4.) Where did this denomination claim to get their power and authority

Again, less than a few hours with three sets of well-known encyclopedias easily answered my question and I found the ONLY denomination that "Jesus" Himself had established. Indeed, I was quite surprised that only this ONE denomination actually claimed that Jesus Himself was the establisher of that denomination, and no other denominations challenged this claim NOR themselves claimed the same roots.

Most of them said, "Joe Somebody" in 1847 (or some late year) established this Denomination of Christianity when he broke off from the main sect of "some denomination" because: he saw corruption in the parent group, he felt he had a better way, he claimed that God told him to do this, etc.

However, if I was to believe that Jesus was whom He said He was, HE (and HE ALONE) had the power to establish HIS church, which I assume He did when He was here. And, He said that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church. He also said that He would be "with them" (here speaking to His followers, whom would organize His Church) until the end of time.

Well, with this promise and statement, I assumed that this Church He set up (in around the year 33 AD) would have to have a continuous and unbroken history since then. Again, only ONE Denomination of Christianity claims just exactly this, and no other denominations claim the same thing, nor do they challenge this fact.

My choice then, became very simple: if I wanted to be in the Religion and the Denomination that was Jesus' True Church, I had but one choice.

I invite you, my beloved Christian brother, to consider this question very carefully for yourself: "Was Jesus a Liar, a Lunatic, or Your Lord?"

If you the discover, as I did, that your choice is that He is Lord, then, as a Christian by  CHOICE,  I further urge you to do as I did, determine which of the 3 choices of denominations you want to be in, 1) one that tickles your ears and tells you what you want to here, 2) the one that God chose for you to be raised and taught in, or 3) Christ's True Church (and there can be ONLY ONE!)

=============================================================== 

Sorry for the length, but now it may be clearer for you to understand how I stick by what not only was reasonable and obvious to me, but also how fervently I now believe in the things Jesus has personally told me. Now, on to you email and my responses:

=============================================================== 

Thank you for continuing to think about me.
You might be surprised to find out just how much I have been both 'thinking" about you, praying for you, and discussing you and your situation with those whom share my deep love of God and desire to teach / learn.

I have given your previous communication much thought.

As have I yours. I have read them all over and over, and contemplated on them deeply.

The crux of the message seemed to be that I would now know what needed to be done.

That was indeed my intention and message, but alas, the ‘substance' of my message seems to have gotten lost in the words (and a great many I used.)

I really am not certain I understand what the step is which should be taken. It would seem to me that perhaps some sort of "turning"? or "religious" steps are intended?
Indeed, you have seen clearly the heart of the matter, albeit the details must have escaped you.

Unless I have totally missed the message, let me state that I am no longer bound by the limited awareness of the "younger me's" at those stages of this personality's life.

Again, your insight is excellent. I did indeed imply that your religious state and beliefs, ‘at the time of your initial turning away' was in my opinion the key to undoing what was done.

Religious doctrines are fine for those believe that is what they need, but I have come to believe "spirituality"(for lack of a better word) is a thing of a much more important nature than the various religions' institutions' diverse/varying/contradicting pronouncements.

I tend to agree with you on this, with the clarification of what we mean by ‘Religious doctrines'. Since there are a variety of religious institutions that each claim to have the ‘correct' way, while these various groups each have very diverse opinions on a wide range of important spiritual issues, one almost must take each of them with a grain of salt. Actually, I once decided, in my youth, that it was obvious to me that this rabble of varying opinions and beliefs by such a conundrum of groups, some of which have very large followings, none of them should be taken on face value nor at their own word about themselves.

In addition, the vast majority of these religious groups, sects, denominations, etc. have very disparaging opinions regarding some or all other groups outside of their own. So, you also cannot accept at face value what any one or more of these groups has to say about the others. How then is one to find the Truth in such a tangled web of self-proclaimed and self-appointed dispensers of their version or slant on the Truth?

Here, I must digress and as you did for me, open up a long-past and hurtful part of my youth to you (in the hopes that in seeing some parallels, you might also consider the path I took out of this jungle. These two questions: ‘Who is Jesus?' and subsequently, 'How does He concern my life, beliefs, and actions?' of course form the core of my life's rules, my beliefs, and my choices.)

=============================================================== 

You mention the concept of "sin" - but I no longer believe in the doctrine commonly represented represented by that term. The usual definition of "sin" to me has been used by religions and has either intentionally or incidentally served to increase the power of the a-religious church structure, while dis-empowering human beings from any realization that  the (ultimate) Creator has given them the opportunity to "re"alize the potential of their spiritually-good nature.

I understand your ‘chosen beliefs', however, our beliefs about The Truth do not in any way change The Truth. If, in truth, there is such a thing as sin, then our disacceptance of this truth can only cause us harm. Sure, it might make us ‘feel' better about our lives and choices and even alleviate our former guilt, but, if this belief is in opposition to reality (or, stated more simply – is incorrect) than it will surely be harmful and dangerous for us.

Let us assume for a moment that I chose to disbelieve in gravity, a widely accepted truth. My disacceptance of this truth does not change either the truth or the consequences it entails. I may jump off of my house in good faith, fully disbelieving in gravity. Unfortunately, the truth of gravity has consequences that I will soon have to face, during my fall back to earth. Also, regardless of what groups use the ‘concept' of sin in what way, it may very well sway our opinions and beliefs regarding sin, BUT does not change the actual reality about sin.

Perhaps it is the definition of sin that is actually at issue here, so let me simplify it for you as Jesus did for me.

God has a personality. He is a person, just as each of us is a person. As a person, He has a personality. As with every personality, He has certain likes and dislikes. There are things that others do that please Him and things that others do that displease Him. ONLY HE chooses what things please and displease Him, and no other person's opinions or beliefs about ‘how He is' change or in any way affect either His personality or what pleases Him or not. Also, just like us, there are things that although might displease Him, He tolerates. Some things He will not tolerate, just like us. Some of us have rules that we live by and rules that we accept as rules of conduct. He has rules.

As an example: I, personally, have some rules. I don't like smoke, smoking, or the smell of cigarettes. I will not allow anyone to smoke in my house or presence. If you insist on smoking, I will first ask you to please go outside of my house and smoke. If you refuse my request, I will forcefully eject you from my house. I do not allow smoking in my house or my presence… this is one of my rules. I have made this rule clear to all who know me, so there should not be any surprise to someone when I do this. Or, if I am elsewhere, I ask those people who choose to be around me to refrain from smoking in my presence. If they choose to do as they please, ignoring my request, I will leave their presence.

SIN- is what displeases God. Our perception of, ideas about, beliefs regarding: SIN, in no way change the reality of sin. What displeases God displeases Him. If a sin is so grievous to Him that he will not allow a person in His presence with this sin, then that is a ‘serious' (mortal) sin. There are some things that God feels so strongly about, that He refuses to let the person doing these things into His presence, His House (heaven.)

It does not matter if YOU thing smoking is a trivial thing, I have decided that for me, this is a very serious issue, such that I will not tolerate it in my presence and will not allow it in my house. I do not ‘blame' the smoker for his smoking, BUT, I do not allow this action around me, for it is serious to ME.

=============================================================== 

It makes no sense to me to believe humans arrive corrupted from the get-go by "original sin”. That seems a very deterministic way to pervert human potential from the beginning of an individual's life as well as marking all human activity as stemming from a flawed and corrupt nature. It lulls us into "forgetting" the true potential of human beings and human society.

And again, whether we choose to believe or accept whatever we choose, it does not change the reality of ‘what is'. If God is real, and if He ‘determines' and ‘creates' all else, then if He has decided that what was done by our ancestors denotes ‘original sin' and therefore has religious, moral, social, spiritual implications that He again determines, than our disacceptance of these truths:

1.) do not change the truth or reality of it

2.)    will likely lead us to further false beliefs or conclusions

3.)    will possibly cause us dire harm just as the gravity example

4.)    do not change the fact that there are consequences to our choices made based on these false beliefs

5.)    do not relieve us from the responsibility of making the correct choices, SINCE the truth about this was made available to us, irregardless of our rejection of it

=============================================================== 

To those who choose to follow a "religious" path on their way to a potentially increased
spirituality (whatever that may mean to them), I say, "Allow each soul to walk it's chosen path until such time a soul may ask questions of another pathway".
This is a wonderful view for life, if we are free to choose our own truths and those truths are subsequently made reality… but, again, this is not the case. Our choice should not be, 'What do I want to believe?" but rather, 'What is the TRUTH?" and again, regarding religion and spirituality, morality, conduct, heaven, hell, church, and ALL SUCH ISSUES, only after one considers and determines for himself the 2 BIG QUESTIONS, does anything else matter. All subsequent issues, discussions, beliefs, etc. are all so subservient to these 2 Big Answers that they pale in comparison. In fact, ALL else is really determined by our answers (beliefs) regarding the 2 Big Questions.

=============================================================== 

In your book I recall reading not only of "sin", but of "punishment" for those who choose not to alter their paths. I would think a symbolic meaning might be hidden here as a "factual hell" would be something I would hold in the same light as "sin".

God how I wish there were no hell, no sin, no offending our Creator, no need for punishment, no demonic personalities bent on our destruction, no Satan (Lucifer by name), no judgment, no condemnation for any. Just heaven, eternal bliss with God, our source. Alas, I will stick with what Jesus has told me, All of these things are very real. However, just as I know I am, with my likes and dislikes, with my rules, with my beliefs, with what I will allow and not allow in my house and presence, with what pleases me and what displeases me, with what actions others choose in dealing with me that put them into the category of either ‘friend' or ‘unacceptable but still desired', with all that I know about me as a person, SO I know about HIM as a person. If you don't believe that anything could ‘offend God' and you also believe that ‘He will let me into His house no matter what I do, say, think, believe or choose' then you and I have very different opinions about the truth nature of the Creator, and at least one of us must be wrong.

Do you really think that God is NOT LIKE US. Are there not things that others do that please you. And other things that they do that displease you. Are there some things you feel so strongly about that you will not let others do in your presence, or in you house.

If I wanted to come into your house and take your children and relieve my sexual urges on them, dragged them out into the middle of the room, in front of you and your whole family, while your children screamed in pain and agony and begged you to stop me from defiling them and ruining them for the rest of their lives, do you honestly believe you allow me to do this. It is my choice, and my will. What does it matter if I am doing it in your house or not?

Even if I agreed to take your children outside into the street to defile them, out of your house and presence, do you believe you would allow that? Would this action not displease you? Would it not be so dispersant to you that you would refuse to allow me to do it in your presence?

Let's say that it was already done, and that I had defiled one of your children in this way. Would you allow me to be in your presence and you not feel badly toward me. I refuse to ask for forgiveness (as you want me to do) and I even refuse to acknowledge that I have offended you (sinned) because I don't believe in ‘offending anyone'. I don't care how you feel about it, for I don't believe that I could ‘offend' you. Therefore, I certainly am not going to admit that I did you any wrong. There is no wrong in my way of thinking. I just did what I felt like doing. There are no consequences regarding you and my actions toward you or those whom you love. You will not judge me or feel badly towards me, you love me!

I assure you, as a loving father, if you have two children whom you deeply love, and one child willingly and intentionally harms the other child, and continues to harm the other child, you as their parent should do something about it. Is it right to let the one child continually cause harm to the other child, innocent of wrongdoing?

Will you not, as head of this house, determine some rules of conduct that your loved children MUST obey, OR, suffer the consequences of. And will you not determine what those consequences of breaking the rules are? Will you leave it up to the disobedient child to determine what they think is appropriate punishment for their offense?

Sure, you can say, 'Hey, why don't you all just try and get along." And then let them do whatever they want to themselves and each other and you, and never be offended, and never protect the innocent, and never punish those whom broke your rules, and never force any of them to leave your presence, and never kick any of them out of your house no matter what they did, do, and continue to do to you ad those you love… but you would not be much of a Father in my opinion. A Father who REFUSES His responsibilities to all of his children is no father at all. He is just a man watching a play, he has no responsibility to the actors, they are independent of him. They do not need him to make decision or rules and through discipline force a code of conduct among the actors. Let freedom reign and let each do to himself and the others whatever he or she chooses. And let no one say that that person in guilty of any wrongdoing, for there is no wrong. No sin. No offense to the theater attendee whom is just watching a play.

=============================================================== 

Given free will, would an unenlightened "error" in judgment merit eternal punishment - with no hope of "parole" - by a loving God (and if "He" is not all-loving, then what would be the difference between such a "God" and "the Devil")

The real question is, 'Why would a good and loving Father (God) send any of His beloved children to a place of eternal punishment and pain?" and the real answer is, 'He wouldn't't!" But, this is not the real issue. The real issue is, 'what do I as a loving father, do with those children whom refuse to live in my house with me?"

Originally, there was only God. Where God is, there is heaven, by its very definition. All was with God and all there was was heaven.

Then, some personalities decided that they REFUSED to stay in God's presence anymore. They said, 'Better to rule without You than to serve under You!" but there was no place for them. God, out of His Love for these disobedient personalities, created a place. A place where HE was NOT. There were then two places: where HE was, and where HE wasn't: heaven and hell (again, by their definitions.)

When God made man, He made Him to live forever with Him, in his house, where He was (heaven.) He never intended for we humans to spend eternity anywhere but there, for that is why we were created and that is the place that was ‘made for us'. However, because He loves us, just as He loved the former personalities, He does not force us to live with Him. If we choose, like the disobedient personalities did, that we would rather be master of ourselves than to accept Him as our Father, then there is no other place we can go. He does not want us to go there, for hell was the place prepared for Lucifer (Satan) and his demons… it is not a proper place for human beings. Yet, because God loves us so, He will not refuse us our choice to leave Him and His presence. He will allow us to go to the place where the demons live; if that is our choice.

The reality of it, as Jesus explained to me, is that hell was created out of love for Lucifer and those whom followed him in his rebellion against God. They no longer wanted to be in God's presence, and to be in His presence after their rebellion was so agonizing to them that God made a new place just for them. And, those poor souls whom choose to follow Satan and his demons onto this ungodly place are allowed to go there for the same reason: God loves them. As they are, to be in God's presence would cause them far greater anguish and suffering than to be out of His presence, and this is why they are allowed to go hell. Any personality that so rebels against God that He completely turns away cannot bear to stand in God's presence, for they know their sins (offenses against God) and these cause within them great distress. In God's presence, this distress is magnified by a seemingly infinite amount, for evil cannot endure good just as darkness cannot stay around when the light comes. Evil flees from the good, for the good is painful to that which is evil. That which has become consumed with evil, as all seriously rebellious and unrepentant souls become after their mortal deaths, are disgusted and fearful of that which is good. As God is infinitely and pure good, evil seeks relief by removing itself from His divine presence.

=============================================================== 

These are all areas of thought, which I have been pondering before replying.

I wish to thank you for drawing so much of this out of me again and forcing me to write it all down. I have a good start on several new chapters for another book herein, and I have you to thank for that.

=============================================================== 

Now that I have responded, what are your thoughts on these issues?
In closing, and hopefully a little less verbose:

There are many truths.

There is only ONE Truth.

That which really ‘is' – is true.

The Truth is not affected by us, our opinions, beliefs, or disacceptance of Truth.

The truth that should matter most to us is 'Is there a God(Creator)?"

If this truth is accepted, then the truth about, 'What does He want?" is relevant.

If this is determined to be, 'Who is Jesus?" then this leads to 'What has He to do with me?"

If these two are decided, as I decided, and as many others have decided, then we realize another truth: 'Jesus is who He claimed to be."

This would lead us to: 'He is therefore my Lord."

And if He is my Lord, than all that He proposes, wants, asks, rules, determines is of the utmost importance to and for me and my life and I should first, 'Seek the kingdom of God" (which is, to find the truth about Jesus) and everything else will be added as needed.

I again offer you the opportunity to reevaluate your earlier decisions, consider the 2 Big Questions, consider the 2 Small Questions, and perhaps once again, return to Jesus open and waiting arms. He so misses you and has such important work for you to do.

As before, I leave you with my prayer that God guide you and give you both the courage and strength to redecide you fate, your future, and your beliefs regarding Him.

I will love you and continue to pray for you and your benefit, no matter what your personal choice in these matters.

I acknowledge you.

I accept you.

I appreciate the good that you and I share.

I admire the good within you that I lack in me.

I adore the beautiful innocent child waiting inside you for you permission to return to the loving arms of His Father.

Yours in Christ,

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Fri, Mar 19, 2004 7:01 am

Subject:

Dear Peniel,

I have downloaded The Box and printed it out so I could read it at home. I have received your follow up and am in the process of printing that out to take home with me. Our spring break begins after school today and I have no internet access from home, so it may be a awhile to get back to you -again, thanks for setting aside time from your (probably) very numerous other activities to communicate.

Dave

Submitted: Mon, Mar 29, 2004 12:47 pm

Subject:

Dear Peniel,

I have finished reading the story of the Box and the last e-mail (and have reviewed some previous correspondence).

I have crossed paths with a variety of persons who demonstrate a knowledge of things which appear "beyond the normal ken". These people have stated sources which run from God to higher self, to angels, aliens, and spirits -as well as the "not-at-present-time living".

In The Box, a few items touching upon the character David's life seemed to echo a few of my life experiences, but the story's David had items quite different from mine - such as that my father had never visited Ohio and I spoke to him regularly up until the day when he (literally) died in my arms (a few years ago). Nevertheless, I did not let such differences deter my attention away from the materials.

I read of your research into religion with much interest, but must say that these were not the conclusions which I drew.

The Box speaks of power, but by most definitions "power" is not what draws me into examining the journey.

My "God-given" mind and "God-given" heart (used in the sincerest effort on my part) manifest to me that for me the popularly expressed doctrines of "sin" and "damnation" encompass such questions and ramifications that my "God-given" conscience cannot now allow me to say that I can accept these concepts as the foundation of "what is" for humans. For me personally to say "Amen!" to this view of the Truth would not be an honest statement before God. My caution does not arise from such "superficial" questions as what happens now to those who committed the mortal sin of eating meat on Fridays in days past. As to the concept that "bad" things happen (so that people will not be "rewarded" in following pathways not desired by God) brings to mind such "easy" considerations as Job-like characters and such "difficult" problems as the death and suffering of 6 1/2 million Jews (down to the age of newborns) - in contrast to many (unethical if not immoral) political, economic, and Mafioso figures who (lead the "dolce vita" and) die of natural causes in their old age.

 I know I have often been mistaken about much as I learn along the journey, and so I realize that "belief" can change from moment to moment as "new elements" come into play - but things must also "ring true" for one's heart. From the emphasis placed on these concepts in your last e-mail, does this mean that our steps can no longer follow a common path together?

David

Submitted: Tue, Mar 30, 2004 12:56 pm

Subject: God-given items

David,

My dear friend. How nicely you speak to me after I have put you through such a ringer. I will probably take you email and do my usual extremely verbose response back to each item in a later email (this is very helpful to me, as it allows me to get written down many things that I know or believe, but have never been put down in writing before.) However, before I spent the time doing the verbose version, I wanted just to drop you a couple of quick notes and thoughts to continue our discussion (I hope we are discussing...)

I have finished reading the story of the Box and the last e-mail (and have reviewed some previous correspondence). I have crossed paths with a variety of persons who demonstrate a knowledge of things which appear "beyond the normal ken". These people have stated sources which run from God to higher self, to angels, aliens, and spirits -as well as the "not-at-present-time living".  

I am very interested by this statement. Are you considering that Peniel G.G.G. might fall into this category? And if so, how so?

In The Box, a few items touching upon the character David's life seemed to echo a few of  my life experiences, but the story's David had items quite different from mine - such as that my father had never visited Ohio and I spoke to him regularly up until the day when he (literally) died in my arms (a few years ago). Nevertheless, I did not let such differences deter my attention away from the materials.

I understand. It IS a work of fiction. I was more interested in what you 'thought' of the 'point' or lesson of the book, revealed in the last few pages?

I read of your research into religion with much interest, but must say that these were not the conclusions which I drew.  The Box speaks of power, but by most definitions "power" is not what draws me into examining the journey.   My "God-given" mind and "God-given" heart (used in the sincerest effort on my part) manifest to me that for me the popularly expressed doctrines of "sin" and "damnation" encompass such questions and ramifications that my "God-given" conscience cannot now allow me to say that I can accept these concepts as the foundation of "what is" for humans. For me personally to say "Amen!" to this view of the Truth would not be an honest statement before God.

I would never wish or want someone to give lip service to 'what I believe.' Such a weakling has no backbone or spirit for seeking truth. Each man must stand firmly in what he believes and defend such, until both logic and reason have convinced him otherwise. As of yet, nothing has been presented to sway either of us from our firmly held beliefs - yet, each of us is willing to accept a greater truth, if and when it is revealed to us.

Also, I am so glad that you used those terms "God-given" mind and heart, and emphasized how important these are to you. Do I surmise from these statement then that you do 'accept and believe' that there is a 'God'?

(As to the questions of 'Who He is', and 'what He is like', we can later, if we wish, discuss further our opinions of this and perhaps shed some light for each other on any differences we find there...)

I do truly understand about your beliefs regarding 'sin', 'damnation', etc. I have myself in the past held very different opinions and beliefs regarding these concepts. I believe that if anyone, with both an open mind and open heart, examines the facts in the light of reason, the TRUTH of these things slowly becomes self-evident. You continually express that you are willing to change your currently held beliefs IF some are found to be untrue, or perhaps you decide that these beliefs no longer 'serve you' in the way in which you wish them to - that is all that is required so that one does not TRAP himself into a self-induced self-acknowledging belief set (which is almost always false, or comes from a false assumption to start with.) I also understand clearly about the typical CWG beliefs regarding demons, the devil, hell, etc. Again, I, like you, seek only to find the TRUTH regarding these concepts, ideas, etc. and using the "God-Given" gift of reason along with a discerning heart, looking at the facts, I am certain that the truth of these 'considerations' can and will eventually become self-evident.


My caution does not arise from such "superficial" questions as what happens now to those who committed the mortal sin of eating meat on Fridays in days past. As to  the concept that "bad" things happen (so that people will not be "rewarded" in following pathways not desired by God) brings to mind such "easy" considerations as Job-like characters and such "difficult" problems as the death and suffering of 6 1/2 million Jews (down to the age of newborns) - in contrast to many (unethical if not immoral) political, economic, and Mafioso figures who (lead the "dolce vita" and ) die of natural causes in their old age. 

Interesting that you mention Job. I have made a deep study of this enigma of a man, and book in the bible, and have much to say regarding it (if and when time permits... you know how much I love to talk!) Job is indeed the perfect example of most of what you illustrate above. The question is twofold:

1.) Why do bad things happen to either innocent and / or good people in this mortal life?
2.) Why do some bad / evil persons prosper and thrive in this life - especially while causing or observing #1?

And, as I have said, I believe the book of Job is the answer to these perplexing questions. (More later, maybe!)


I know I have often been mistaken about much as I learn along the journey, and so I realize that "belief" can change from moment to moment as "new elements" come into play -  but things must also "ring true" for one's heart.

Again, this is exactly what my history is, and continues to be. I have held beliefs in the past that are different and sometimes even contrary to my current beliefs. At each change, reason and logic, aided by the facts and truth (as I accepted it to be) were the deciding factors in my changing my opinions, beliefs, and in a few instances, my very life-style. I seek not what APPEALS to me, I WANT TRUTH. Show me the truth, and make it convincing and clear, and I will accept the truth and live my life by it. I read from many of your statement a similar willingness to accept truth where truth is clearly shown... this plus an open mind are the only characteristics needed to eventually arrive at The Truth. This is what I suspect you mean by, "Ring-true to my heart."

From the emphasis placed on these concepts in your last e-mail, does this mean that our steps can no longer follow a common path together?

You may not believe it, but I actually consider myself one of the most open-minded persons I have ever known. I too, like you, not only accept that ANY and ALL of my beliefs might be incorrect, I actively seek opposing views and weigh them carefully against logic and evidence to see if possibly I may have been wrong in accepting some current belief that I accept. I view beliefs like my socks, I can change them any time it suits me, and sometimes the ones I have stink. If I decide that a pair of socks I have no longer suits or serves me, I will happily toss them away and find a better pair. I hope to someday discover the RIGHT PAIR for me, so that I will never have to change them again (although, I will keep an open mind and ear to others regarding my socks, so that I do not fall into a self-fulfilling prophecy about the truth of my socks...)

When someone proposes some alternate belief than what I currently hold, my first reaction is not a knee-jerk defense of my own belief, but an honest and sincere effort to see the 'truth' of the other belief. Why does this person believe this? How does this belief serve him? Can this belief be included in my current belief-set? Where did this 'belief' come from? Why has no one believed like this before? etc. My first step is to seriously doubt my own personal beliefs that are in opposition to the 'consideration' and see if I can accept or claim this new belief myself. Can it serve me better than what I currently believe? How does this new belief align with the facts, and other previously determined truths? etc.

As to you question: does this mean that our steps can no longer follow a common path together? NO, our steps CAN follow a common path from here on. Even if you had expressed that 'belief' that you devoutly atheist and did not believe in God or any higher source, we have much more in common than in opposing... for we are both human beings, born and raised, mid-forties, have loved and been loved by others, have experienced the wonder of having children and raising them, and the pressure and responsibility of being a father and husband. From these life-molding experiences, we are probably VERY much alike in mind, body, and personality (spirit - soul.) The probably few and trivial differences in our 'found and accepted' truths are probably greatly outweighed by our common life experiences - from which I have derived and drawn MOST of what I now know and hold to be true.

In addition, at your preference, I have no problem in keeping the discussion on a strictly 'PC and friendly' basis (i.e. we only discuss what we mutually agree on and have a back-patting session with each other.) I also do not have any problem in having a knock-down, drag-out heated discussion regarding the severe-impacting life-determining differences that we each hold so dearly that it may appear impossible to wrestle-away from the other.

Normally, I just babble on and use your last statement as food for my mind to feed off of and let my mind take the thoughts where they will. I then go back and edit and attempt to put it all into a cohesive lump for you to digest, a thought-tirade at a time... ;)

Eventually, this will be source information for more book writing by Peniel G.G.G., in which you will surely get credit for a large part! 

Let's continue to talk until you can't stand it any more!

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Wed, Mar 31, 2004 4:11 pm

Subject:

Dear Peniel,

My school system has decided to block teacher access to e-mail accounts other than the school system's. Since this makes it difficult (for the near future, anyway) for me to obtain access to this account you may contact me (I hope) through my school system at the following address:

(snip) – removed…

If that fails, use the past address and I will access less frequently via the public library.

I'm also going to try to discover if I can do as you in being able to reproduce your latest text and then interject commentary  - it seems to refer directly and then comment in a different color  is much more useful!

Thanks,

David

Submitted: Fri, Apr 02, 2004 9:13 am

Subject: BCC List

David,

I have updated my record with your email address you gave me. This one will be sent to the primary new address and cc'd to your school (old) address. From this point on, all my emails will go to your new email address.

BTW - I am still expecting a response to my last (long) email to you, so tag - your it. Send me the next email and tell me what you wish to discuss and we'll go from there.

I believe my last questions to you were about your belief in 'God' as you mentioned. (i.e. - Do you believe in a higher being? Is there more than one of Him? What's He like? What does He want from us? - that sort of stuff.)

You may discuss if you like, or change to other subject or questions... heck - I'm easy!

ALSO, since I am in communication (like I am with you) with many other persons via email, would you possibly be interested in seeing some of what OTHERS are discussion with me and the questions and answers they get? I could set you up on my BCC (Blind Carbon Copy list) and when I respond to their emails you would get a copy for your reading entertainment / possible benefit?

If one of my spiritual discussion pals (like you) asks me, I can always 'NOT CC' certain emails (if they are too personal or private) OR blurb out all personal references (names, email addresses, etc.) as I do with one or two of my pals.

Most of them just let me fully share all that they communicate with me. As you well know, I do most of the talking in these sessions, and there is usually very little coming from my pals that is 'too personal' to show others. Heck, most of them are in the same boat as you, and often learn a lot from the 'other's' emails that I BCC them on.

Also, if you don't mind, I would like to begin including your emails into my BCC group (that is, when I respond to you, I will BCC the group that is interested in these spiritual discussions.)

DO I HAVE YOUR PERMISSION? (Remember, I can always block out anything you want blocked (personal) or remove all identity references.)

I have mentioned your general questions to some others and there is great interest in the things I am telling you to some of the others.

ALSO, WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE BCC'd ON MY SPIRITUAL DISCUSSION EMAILS WITH OTHERS?

One of my goals (as a spiritual guide, mystic guru, and pizza chef) has always been to spread the wealth of truth and good information as widely as I can, soas to benefit the most people. You and I have already shared some good stuff that would be helpful to others, and I would like your permission to both start CCing you on their stuff, AND, to BCC them when I respond to you?

I am going to ask the same thing of most of them in the next few days, and build up the BCC group list some.

Again, it is always a pleasure discussing (anything) with you. I hope I get two yeses and more stuff from you!

May God grant you peace, joy, and fill your heart with love.

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Fri, Apr 02, 2004 10:13 am

Subject:

Dear Peniel,

"Yes"! - to both your questions regarding "sharing"!!

I will draft a response to your recent e-mail this weekend and send it off to you next week.

David (Interesting that the character "David" in The Box has an earlier "original" name - I have never felt comfortable with "David"!!!)

Submitted: Fri, Apr 02, 2004 10:13 am

Subject:

David,

WONDERFUL (about your 2 yeses!)

Also, since you are going on the list, would you be interested in the 'recent' archive for your reading pleasure? (There are probably 40 or 50 emails in the most recent BCC directory.) - Of course, you know me, some of my responses to people go on for 20 pages...

I would be happy to compile a set of them up and send them to you (you can always just skip or trash what does not interest you...) There is typically a single file where I keep all of the chronological communications with one particular individual (ignoring what I am just BCCing him on from others) so that there is a continuing thread to the discussion. There are about 10 different persons in the recent BCC group sharing.

I was just about ready to recompile them anyway, so, just say the word and I will send a copy of them to you?


May God bless you and keep you.

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Fri, Apr 02, 2004 10:57 am

Subject:

Yes!!!!! Send them! Thanks

David

*** (Last Archived) ***

Submitted: Mon, Apr 05, 2004 6:54 am

Subject: Beliefs about God

Good Morning, Dear Peniel,                                            

To respond to your inquiry in regard to my beliefs about "God"; from my life's experiences and what I have studied, the following is (at present) what seems most likely and what feels most appropriate to me (but I make no restrictions or judgments on what another believes or "knows").

At the "beginning" there is a conscious awareness, which is the "All" of everything (without regard to time referencing). This "All" initiates the "creation" of whatever appears to be separate from "It". This "creation" is "simply" an "action" which "re-aligns" "It's" "appearance of being" in order to give rise to the "illusions" of our reality framework. This "creation" may entail the "secondary existence" of "more limited" secondary manifestations of the "All" (based on one's individual belief system, these could be designated as Archangels, Angels, etc. or varying levels of "Higher Selves".)

Stemming from all of this would be the resultant belief that we are all "parts" of "God" (the body of Christ) and therefore, it would seem "illogical" that "God" would create a system which would allow a "part of "Itself" to be "damned" in eternal suffering for eternity - one would hope that the "All" would be "smarter" than that - "smart" enough to devise a system wherein "free will" would exist and yet an "eternity of opportunity" exist, wherein "God would not 'lose' a part of "Itself". The eventual "re-integration" or "salvation" of each "part of the All" is a foregone conclusion (what would one say about the intelligence of a being which would cut off its foot to punish the foot for having stumbled?).

What is the purpose of Life and each man's life? What should a person "do" in life? This is the question, which must be answered in order to determine a purposeful pro-active journey to "the destination" (if one doesn't know the destination, how can one arrive there?).

In choosing to couch "the tale" in religious terms…

"  … So soon as man contemplates his free will he thinks of it as a means of doing the opposite of God's will, though he finds that only in doing God's will does he find happiness. Yet, the notion of serving God sits ill with him, for he sees it as a sacrifice of his will. Only in disillusion and suffering, in time, space, and patience, does he come to the wisdom that his real will is the will of God, and in its practice is happiness and heaven."  (P.75 of a work dealing with Cayce) Those who choose a different terminology might phrase it thusly: the "seemingly lesser manifestation of the 'All' " "re-evolves" back toward a further and further expanded awareness of  its ( ="It's") true nature.

What is God's will? This, then, seems to be the crucial primary question for men. The answer is…

"But remember that the whole gospel of Jesus Christ is 'Thou shalt love the lord thy God with all thy mind, thy heart and thy body; and thy neighbor as thyself. Do this and thou shalt have eternal life.'" (P76 of the same "Cayce"-work) - 'The rest of the Bible is merely commentary.'

But that doesn't really "simplify" the quest, because now each man in his own heart must attempt to discern wherein lies "loving God and Neighbor (as well as "Self/self") on a moment by moment evaluation of each arising circumstance in being. It seems that the awakening of awareness, in each one's own "individual and proper time" leads into the realization of this state of affairs - and the continued focus on this path leads to a progressively greater expansion of the artificially restricted scope of "Self-awareness". As the will is focused on allowing the awareness of the scope of  "Self" to re-expand, this allows the progressively larger and greater expanding concept/realization of Self to use more and more "knowing" to replace "reasoning out" in regard to each moment of choosing. This can be thought of as the "growing volume of the 'Voice within'", or as the hastening of "Enlightenment"/"Salvation".

This is (more or less) my present "foundational" belief. After much examination, a  "literal" belief in the organized Christian Churches' interpretation of "the Christ story" is for me less important than understanding the underlying message therein - which for me seems to be consistent with what I have expressed above.

Oh, in regard to crux of The Box - I have no problem recognizing that (to change in paraphrasing and with no slight intended) "...there IS "gold" which does not glitter..."

Unless I have forgotten something  - Tag!

David

Submitted: Wed, Apr 07, 2004 2:39 pm

Subject: Peniel's Book OMG History, Panels response to New-Age beliefs

BCC: KC, DC, JG, Biyn, DM, AP, TW, SH

Good afternoon, my Beloved David, 

(I sincerely hope and pray that after reading this, we do not 'loose' you! For I truly do love you. I want your needs fulfilled, and you joy increased! Alas, I fear this is not going to be the results of this email...)

Peniel's reply:

I decided to consolidate comments this time, instead of separating it piece by piece.

(David, most of my ‘reply to your above explanations' are at the bottom of this, after my explanation about the origins of my book, and its history, and its final publishing.)

You know, I studied and learned much in my past ‘seeking of knowledge' during the time I voraciously studied all that ‘man believes' about the Creator. But, back in 1975 to 1980, when I did the majority of my studying, there was almost no ‘new age' beliefs and very little writings similar to the abundant material there is now. I am now quite familiar with Neale Walsch's CWG series, for this is the key that was used to finally get my first book published. This is a quite a story, long and interesting, full of amazing coincidences and the obviousness of God's hand in it. NOW seems to be the appropriate time to tell this tale! For all those reading this: PLEASE bear with me! This story will greatly assist you in knowing how God has brought this book of mine to you, and perhaps your role in our future also!

Long past:

I had the original conversations in 1980. I actually wrote them down (by hand, on notebook paper) in 1985 while TDY to Las Vegas in the Air Force. In 1985 through 1987 I attempted to have the book published and sent out many transcripts, copies (both paper and on disk, electronically). It became obvious that no publisher was willing to publish this book at that time. All the publishers said the same thing, 'It is too controversial (a book proposing that a common man talked casually to God) and since there is no successful precedence, it is too large a financial risk." The key was that there was no ‘successful precedence' i.e. nobody has published a book like this before that made some money. We even had 2 publishers recommend that we send copies to several large marketing firms in California where they are ‘more likely to accept and market weird stuff'. This was in the hopes that some marketing firm might be able to find a ‘niche market' in which the book could be published and tried. We did so, and sent the book (on disk) with explanation letters to a couple dozen large marketing firms in California in 1987. No responses.

I shelved the book in 1988, and only printed out an occasional book copy from my own computer and dot matrix printer, when some interested ‘disciple' came along and wanted his own copy to read. I always used the book to teach out of. Here's another amazing coincidence, back then, I had originally titled the book: 'The TRUTH – (My Conversations with God)". All copies prior to 2002 bear this title.

Recent past:

In 2002, I was doing my usual weekly group discussion Internet chat with about 100 other persons called Geocachers. We were throwing out various off-topic ideas. One of my buddies threw out some religious excerpt from the bible (he is a Super-Christian.) I decided that I would throw out on the chat the first four lines from my book, so I did:

===============

God.

Yes son?

I love you.

I love you too!

…

===============

Immediately upon seeing this, my buddy said, 'Yeah, I am familiar with that book. It is a load of New-Age crap!"

Flabbergasted that he knew about my book and would say something like that about it, I said? 'You must mean some other book. This is a quote from MY book. It is as yet unpublished and very few people have copies of it."

My buddy insisted that he indeed had the book I quoted from. I asked for the title. He said, 'Conversations with God" or something like that.

I answered, well, that is the ‘subtitle' the actual title is 'The Truth – My Conversations with God" and he said, YEAH, that's the book! I asked how he was so sure and he said, 'Because, one of the things that struck me in the book was that ‘short chapter'."

'What short chapter?" I asked, and he replied – those exact four lines you just quoted! I was really confused now. I asked where he got my book, now that it was obvious that it WAS my book we were talking about. He said he bought it in a bookstore.

'Why do you think it is new-age crap?" I asked.

My buddy answered, 'Because you claim that there is no hell, no sin, and that Hitler is in heaven."

'What the hell are you talking about, I would never claim such stuff!" At this time, several other people in the chat request links to the book we are arguing about. I send the link to my old website, where the book has ALWAYS been availably for reading. Several chatters went there and begin reading my book online.

My buddy goes to this link and reads the beginnings of Chapter 1. He comes back and says, 'That is not the same book. But, it is almost identical to it!"

He sent me the link to the book he had, titled 'Conversations with God (An Uncommon Dialog) by Neale Walsch" I went to that link and to my astonishment, as I began reading ‘about the book' and also the first few pages in the book, I realized that it appeared that we had extremely similar books.

We realized that we were NOT talking about the same book, but two different books that were astonishingly similar. Everyone on the chat board was watching and commenting, they couldn't wait to see how this ‘deal' turned out.

My buddy returned, after having read half of chapter one of MY book, and he said, 'Man, you ripped him off good!" I said, 'excuse me?" and my buddy said, from the little I read it is obvious that I had just taken Neale's book and rewrote it as a Christian – 'GREAT IDEA!" my buddy said to me. If you use the same formula he did, talking to God in a casual conversation, and discuss the same stuff as Neale did, only in a Christian vein, you'll get rich!

I was angry now. (I rarely get angry.) I explained that I had never heard of Neale Walsch (to date) and had never heard of this book of his. I was then informed that it was not a book, but a series, over twenty books. They had been on the bestsellers list for over 2 years straight, back in 1996 and 1997. He had sold over 14 million copies of just the first 3 and there were many more now. I was astounded!

I had my buddy get the copy he had and read the intro. Neale said that he began his first writings for these books in February of 1992.

I explained that I had original copies of MY BOOK, in my handwriting on notebook paper from 1985. There was a long silence on the chat board. My buddy came back and said, 'If that is really true, I think YOU got ripped off!"

Well, the next day, I bought Book 1 of the CWG series and read it. Indeed, I agreed with my buddy, it sure ‘looked' like I had been ripped off, both the content and style and presentation and subject matter and LOTS of stuff was ‘obviously' borrowed. BUT HOW?

In Neale Walsch's CWG Book 1, the entire Chapter 10 is as follows:

===============

Chapter 10

I love you, you know that?

I know you do.

And I love you.

===============

And here is my Chapter 1, lines 1 through 4:

===============

God.

Yes son?

I love you.

I love you too!

…

===============

My book title: 'The Truth (My Conversations with God)".

Neale's title: 'Conversations with God (An Uncommon Dialog)".

I did some research on Neale. He will never talk about his past, before the books. HE is always very reluctant to discuss that. I did find out that in the late 80s, he was the CEO and owner of a large marketing firm in California. BINGO!!!

I got all three of his CWG books. I was much surprised when I found that the books style, tone, conversational method, and even a great deal of the discussion topics were ‘extremely similar' to what I had written many years before Neale picked up a pen to write his books. As a matter of a fact, the ample similarities gave rise very quickly to claims of plagiarism and once my book got published, the earliest reviewers clearly stated that ‘Peniel's book' was ‘obviously' just a rehashing of Neale's famous work, only now in a Christian vein and it was apparent that Peniel was merely attempting to ride on the coattails of a multi-million dollar selling vehicle: CWG, and attempt to capitalize on this now-proven money-making scheme, only with the Christians instead of with the New-Agers, of which there are MANY MORE! (See excerpt of this review below – Especially the highlighted part.)

(See: http://www.tangmonkey.com/columns/104317189945601.php )

-----------------------------------------------------

(NOTE: Highlighting is Peniel's)

Jan 21, 2003:

JP recently forwarded me an email he had received, promoting a new book entitled Oh My God! Are You Talking to Me? (My Conversations with Jesus). He thought I might want to review it for Tangmonkey. Here is the email message:

This sounds like a pretty unusual book, but what's even more unusual is that I read another book just like it a couple of years ago. That book, entitled Conversations With God is by a guy called Neal Donald Walsh. It was your typical new-age fare: simplistic, feel-good philosophy using simplistic, feel-good interpretations of traditional religion to back it up.

Like Peniel, Walsh claimed that the book was a transcription of actual conversations he had with God. He sat down one day, pondering over life's Big Questions, and felt his pen moving under the control of some other power. Through Walsh's pen, this power revealed that it was God, and went about answering the questions in a straightforward, casual, conversational way.

If nothing else, Walsh understood human psychology very well, because all the ideas in the book seem to make a lot of sense and are quite attractive. They are coherent and intuitive. They are the type of things you want to believe. It's a great book for gullible new-age believers and tough-minded cynics alike, the former because they'll find it profound and convincing, the latter because its full of examples of the way that type of book makes itself seem profound and convincing.

So I read the email and the sample chapters of the book by this Peniel guy, and it seems to be almost identical in both concept and content. The only difference is that Peniel's book is a little more wacky and humourous and the writing is a little less polished. Peniel doesn't seem to take himself quite so seriously as Walsh (which can be interpreted as either a good thing or a bad thing).

So my theory is that the book is plagiarized (Note: I am not in any way suggesting that Peniel, Penielite G.G.G Press or Metropolis Ink Publishing has or will publish plagiarized work). Conversations With God and its sequels were best-sellers, and Walsh has a lot of personal investment in his books. From his website I learned that he has even started a 'foundation" (read: cult) centered around his books. So how can he possibly accuse this Peniel guy of plagiarism? If God spoke to him, why wouldn't he have given the same message to someone else? In order to prove that Peniel plagiarized, he would have to admit that the message didn't really come from God, which would undermine his own credibility. Peniel is simply a clever guy who realized this and decided to cash in.

Of course I can't really substantiate any of this until I receive my review copy of Oh My God! Are You Talking to Me? (My Conversations with Jesus, but I'll keep you updated.

-----------------------------------------------------

I was quite amused! He said that the books were ‘almost identical in both concept and content'. He adds, ‘My theory is that this book is plagiarized'. He also notes that Walsch has now sold a series of over twenty books, in the multiple-millions and now conducts seminars and workshops relating to his material and CHARGES everyone to attend them. He even has a weekly email that he charges for also. He has made a fortune (at least 30 million, and perhaps MUCH more) from this CWG series and all the spin-offs.

Now, Neale's story is almost identical to mine. Even how he claims that God first came to him one night when he was frustrated. I, after reading much of the CWG books, I ALSO agreed whole-heartedly with the reviewer's comments above! It sure looks like ONE OF US took the other's book, and simply re-wrote it entirely to conform to our own views and beliefs. BUT, we used the exact same style, format, concept and content! This was TOO Coincidental.

I was quickly reminded of the Gilgamesh story and the Adam and Eve story in Genesis. It is quite clear that one of them is a ‘retelling' of the other! But, which was first? THIS IS THE KEY!

Well, a very long and full of amazing ‘God-inspired' coincidences later made a little shorter. After speaking with some legal folks that specialize in plagiarism, I came to understand that even if one person took another person's book, as long as they ‘rewrote' it and did not use large chunks of the ‘same words', it was perfectly legal and NOT plagiarism. It might not be ‘ethical' but it is certainly ‘legal'.

Upon hearing this, I suddenly realized that rather than file a lawsuit against Neale, I was actually in his debt. Greatly in his debt! For HERE at last was the ‘successful precedence' that the publishers wanted way back in 1985 in order to ‘possibly' publish my book. Here was a book wherein a common man claims to have casually communicated with God and whom God has given information to that He wants revealed to the world (or whomever is interested in reading it!)

I dusted off the ‘shelved copy' of The Truth (My Conversations with God) and sent out the exact same ‘introduction letter' to a small list of small publishers. The only thing that I added was that I understand NOW that there is a very successful series by NDW entitled the CWG series and that my books and his books were extremely similar, only mine were aimed at a Christian market, while Neale's were aimed at New-Agers.

I had six offers in two weeks to publish! I picked out the publisher that best ‘appealed' to my sensitivities regarding the book (i.e. I did not want ANYONE ripping God's words apart and changing the meaning of what He had said. I did not want any omissions or modifications to the messages in the sentences.)

I found the PERFECT publisher, tailor made just for this work. The editor was actually ‘reluctant' to edit God's Words, until I assured him that all of the words were filtered through my mind, and I might not have chosen the correct words to ‘most correctly' express the intended meaning of the ideas God had presented in pure thought in my mind. He very meticulously edited it. No sentences were lost or moved. Only a few ‘words' were changed. From the original text, 117 of Jesus words were changed to ‘clearer' words, 2143 of mine were changed to ‘better tense, clearer words, appropriate style, etc.' I was amazed how much clearer the revised copy was to the original, and every single ‘thought' was preserved.

The book published in April 2003. Jesus has pretty much kept it ‘hidden' since then. It is NOT advertised at all. It is only ‘mentioned' in a few places where I have given reviews to Neale Walsch's books. Some I blasted for their commercialism, some I rated highly for their innovation and bringing a new way of looking at God for many. Amazingly, after sending out several dozen ‘requested review copies' not ONE of the requesters ever reviewed it! I saw in this that it was obvious that God was hiding this book, for now! Every attempt I have since made to get it widely known has met with astoundingly coincidental (the mark of God's hand) resistance. Eventually, Jesus told me to leave it alone, and ‘leave the marketing to Him'. I have since done so!

Funny, the book has ‘always' been available on the Internet, on my site. It has rarely been looked at. It was mainly for my use as a teaching aid, and for me to print occasional copies to give to those in training under me for their benefit and instruction.

I do remember now, there were parts in it where Jesus said that one day He would get it published! Hallelujah, He did it! Amazing.

I suspect, if the general public (Christians especially) ever finds out what is really in this book, it might become more popular that even Neale's stuff was! Wouldn't that be wonderful, to spread this amazing stuff in there to a large group of people! Think of how many lives it could transform, or at least help. I suspect that if that ever does happen, I will be swamped with emails and requests to attend the seminars and workshops, and clamor for more of my writings. I would need a staff of people to assist me with the demands, I suspect!

Jesus even said that He ‘might' use the proceeds from the book to set ‘us' up nicely (my family and my ‘group') so that I wouldn't have to work and that I could then devote all of my time to teaching and discussing with you guys, teaching the seminars and workshops (all for free, of course) and writing out more of what He has given to me, for others benefit. THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL!

But, I trust Him completely. If He wants it widely known, He will attend to that. He has several times told me to leave it alone, and leave the marketing to Him. He apparently did not want it to become too popular too quickly, probably so that I can have appropriate time to assist all of you. Who knows, this little group could be the beginnings of some great work? Jesus, in the book, also spoke of those He would eventually send to ‘assist me' in all of the various work that will need to be done. Perhaps I am staring in the face of God's plan for me, and my time is soon to come. Again, we will wait on God, for I know that all I have ever done on my own, without His initiating it was a dismal failure. I ALWAYS wait on God. Let us pray that He decide that the time is indeed nigh.

In the past 25 years, I have had a rare few persons whom the book has not only ‘touched', but whom the book has ‘transformed' and ‘called'! My current (and only) novitiate is such a person. After discussing with me what the Penielite Order (a Lay Order of Love and Service to Our Lord) is, and what the rules and guidelines were, he instantly desired to enter into the Order and became the first true ‘novitiate'. He now continues his instructions under me personally, and assists me in any way I desire regarding the book, the work, our mission, and our goals. He is the one whom has scanned in much of the ‘old writings' I have from the 70's and is now continuing. Who knows, perhaps some of you may feel called to this work in what way you can assist. Tom is also already volunteered to ‘type in' from copies of the old printed material, to make it more available to the general public.

As these workshops and seminar materials becomes electronically available, I will put it up on the books website http://www.mcwj.com for all of your enjoyment / entertainment / and instruction. I hope it generates more questions and discussions among us.

David,

Now to your explanation regarding God and your beliefs about Him. I do truly understand your beliefs, and you choice to believe them. However, I also see that if you honestly believe as you claim to do, you must somehow come to deal with the enigma of Christ. The ‘problem' of Christ is the problem that all non-Christians, and I suspect, New-Agers also, must ultimately face and answer and deal with.

What about the claims that this historical Jesus made?

Granted, Jesus message was ‘Love God, love your neighbor" and this sums up what He told others to do. But, as you said, it then becomes important (if you accept this message as the Truth) as to ‘How do I love God, and my Neighbor?"

The real dilemma is this, 'Is there an acceptable way (to God) to love Him and one's neighbor, and is there also an unacceptable way?"

The problem is not Jesus… the problem is Jesus CHRIST!

If Jesus were just Jesus, a good and powerful man, perhaps even an 'advanced" being, or even a ‘perfected person' or even ‘the greatest saint, mystic, prophet and guru ever'; then we would have no problems. For His claims could be ignored and disregarded.

BUT, it has been proposed, and accepted by a huge many, that He is not just Jesus, He is the Christ! (Literally, ‘The Anointed One.) The promised Jewish Messiah, the fulfillment of the Chosen People of God's prophesies. The very SON OF GOD!

This Jesus Himself claimed! He claimed many things, and they all tie together under Judeao-Christianity and it's traditional ideals and views (and subsequent religions and guidance.) He claimed, 'I am the messiah." He claimed, 'I and The Father (understood to mean God the Creator) are One." He claimed, 'No one can come to the Father unless He comes through me." Jesus claimed, 'I assure you, unless you be born again, you can never see the Kingdom of God." Jesus claimed, 'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

Jesus claimed many such things, and many more, and taken as a whole, these claims can be summed up this way:

Jesus is the Christ, the anointed one of God.

Jesus is the Messiah, the prophesied and awaited redeemer of Israel.

Jesus is also the Messiah of all mankind, not only the Jews, for His sacrifice was for us also.

Jesus is the ONE and ONLY ‘Son of God'.

Jesus and God (the one and only Creator) are One (they have the same nature, though they are different persons).

Jesus IS God (the One and Only, the Creator.)

Without the sacrifice of Jesus, no man can be saved.

Without the acceptance of Jesus sacrifice, God will not allow the person to be saved (except by actual and not willful ignorance thereof, or through extreme grace.)

Now, all non-Christians, and all those whom do not ‘accept these tenets of Christianity as all true' have to deal with the enigma and problem that Jesus must surely pose to them.

Mainly, this claim: I AM GOD! If Jesus IS God, then to whom is it that these New-Age gurus have been speaking (whom claimed to be ‘God') and now presents things very different to, sometimes even contrary with, and occasionally opposed to: all that Jesus once said and claimed when He was here.

Most simply ignore Jesus and His claims. They accept the ‘core teachings' regarding Jesus concerning proper relations between man and man, but they duck the issue of 'Christ"-ianity. We are not 'Jesus"-ians, we are 'Christ"-ians. Without Jesus being accepted as the 'Christ", we have no claim other than another man-made religion. Only the Jews then would have any claim on other than a merely man-made religion.

I see it this way. If God is real, and if He is a person, like us, then He would want us to know the truth about Him, and our relation with Him, and what He wants of us and from us. I suspect that, just like I have had ‘dealings' with my daughter, and, as the time was right, I revealed to her more about what I want and me; what I will accept and won't accept; what are my rules and laws; what really makes me angry, and what pleases me.

I believe that God would surely have dealt with His beloved children (mankind) as I have dealt with my child. In history, SURELY He would have eventually come and introduced Himself to someone. I see this in Abraham, if the story is acceptable to me as true.

Surely then, also, if God has certain laws that He really wants man to obey, He would surely tell us, eventually. I see this in Moses, if the story is acceptable and true.

Surely then, if God were to want us to know Him truly and clearly, and for Him to really understand us truly and clearly, He would come among us and live as one of us. I see this in Jesus (the Christ) if the story is acceptable and true.

No other religion, group, faction, or person (save perhaps a few New-Agers) claim that THEY are the TRUE communication from the TRUE and only God (our Creator.) No religion, faction, or person (that I am aware of) denies that it was the One True God (the Creator) that initiated His dealings with man through Abraham, then Moses. And, much of what this ‘Chosen People of the One True God' spent their time doing is writing prophecies from God regarding the coming 'Messiah", the ultimate fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham and all of the Jews: the actual GOD-Incarnate!

Now, it is common knowledge that SOME of the Jews did not and do not accept that Jesus is / was the Messiah. But, many of them did, and they became 'Christian-Jews". They were still Jews, but they also accepted the precepts, teachings and beliefs associated with the Christ, Jesus.

As time went on, Christians (through Saul / Paul) allowed non-Jews into their religion and we had a separation from Jew and Christian. Christians today accept their roots and heritage from the Jews, and accept and believe the old testament along with the New Testament. They see Jesus, the Christ, as the promised Savior and also the fulfillment and culmination of the old ‘law', which we Christians are no longer under. We are now under the more perfect ‘principles' upon which the old laws were based, 'Love God and neighbor." These are the fulfillment of the law.

I can not bring my logical and reasoning mind to accept that all of this history and all that has been taught and believed by millions for 2000 years for Christians, and 4000 years for Jews is all just BUNK. And that ONLY now is God finally and honestly revealing the REAL TRUTH, to a few select men, and that everything that everyone has been taught and has been accepting and believing for thousands of years has all been a mistake. It has all been untruths, half-truths, partial-truths, distortions of the truth, misguidance, misleading, and in its core: lies.

I don't buy it. Granted, if what I claim about having had casual conversations with Jesus is truth, and I believe and propose that it IS TRUE, that I am in a very unique position to judge this New-Age case and belief-set. HEY, as far as I know, I was responsible for the enormous popularity of this New-Age movement!

(If indeed, my suspicions about Neale Walsh were true, he may have written all that he did BECAUSE OF ME and MY BOOK! Maybe he said, HEY, here's an interesting concept, a common man talking with God. Well, this book is never going to be published or sold, let me take this guy's idea and turn it around to fit my New-Age beliefs. Shoot, it might be a very powerful and popular way to present my beliefs!)

If this happened, I am personally, albeit indirectly, responsible for some of the popularity of the New-Age movement. I do know that many New-Agers that I have spoken with claim Neale Walsh as the main influence for them, for Neale's GOD gave them permission and credence to their beliefs. Before Neale, it was just another cult, but now, GOD has said that this is the way it really Is! AND THEY BUY IT, literally.)

Here is an interesting side note: before Jesus Himself came and began speaking with me, I had already been hearing ‘voices' for years. I even spent some time in the Air Force loony-bin because of these voices.

Many of the things that Neale Walsch has proposed in his book, supposedly from Neale's God, is very similar to a lot of what I was told, but didn't accept. Indeed, no offense to God, no sin, no hell, no Satan, no demons, Etc. At the time these ‘voices' were speaking with me, they sometimes proposed that they were either God, or Angels of Light, or ‘that part of me inside which is in touch and communion and communication wit the real God'. I later found out that this is exactly the opposite of what ‘THEY' were. I was very naive spiritually, and fairly naive maturity-wise, and ‘THEY' knew that one day Jesus Himself would come and speak with me.

They did everything in there power to arrange it so that if and when Jesus actually did come and speak to me in ‘voices', I would NOT accept Him. And, they did an outstanding job! They weaved a very complex and intrinsic web and had me doing and believing all sorts of crazy stuff. Granted, ‘THEY' knew a lot of stuff that I didn't and because of their power and knowledge, they were very convincing, but not completely. Once I caught them in a lie, it was over. I would have no more of it. Then, they turned on me and revealed their true nature. I got in big trouble spiritually, thank God for His mercy on a fool such as I.

Now, my reasons that I do not accept the New-Age beliefs:

I have known Jesus too long and too personally. I know Him to be the Christ. AND, what is true today is true tomorrow. Truth cannot be temporary, or fleeting, or it is not Truth. If there is doubt to be cast upon a set of ‘beliefs' then I would suspect that the recent proposals of many whom NOW claim that they have the Truth, and that no one else has had this same ‘real' truth until now, it is they that I would first suspect. If they are RIGHT, why has God lied to us for so long, in so many ways, and deceived so many!

Oh yes, there is GREAT appeal in what these New-Agers say, it is very tickling to the ears. Imagine, no Hell! No offending God. No place for us to go but Heaven.

They say, God is not going to loose a part on Himself, He will surely bring each and everything and person that He has ever created back unto Himself, and into Himself.

There claim that we are all "parts" of "God" implies that being as we are 'part" of God, how could God ever be offended by a part of Himself. And I say, I have children that are indeed a 'part" of me, and I would love to devise a system in which Summer has her free will and also could NOT offend me, being as she is 'part" of me. BUT, in reality, even though she is indeed a ‘part' of me, she has a completely separate and distinct personality for me, she is a completely unique ‘person' because of this, and as a separate person from me, there is the possibility that she could (and many times in her life HAS offended me.) Now, she never offended me so severely that I would have run her out of my hose, but, there is that distinct possibility. I say, God is very like us, He is a Father to me, JUST like I am a father to Summer. There is the possibility of her offending me, and there is the very real possibility of me offending God, even though we both acknowledge that I am merely a 'part" of God.

They think it would seem "illogical" that "God" would create a system which would allow a "part of "Itself" to be "damned" in eternal suffering for eternity - one would hope that the "All" would be "smarter" than that - "smart" enough to devise a system wherein "free will" would exist and yet an "eternity of opportunity" exist, wherein "God would not 'lose' a part of "Itself".

Again, I answer. The model God has shown me, the model He has always proposed for God's relationship with and to man (up until the last few years and these new-agers have now proposed otherwise), and for almost all of the various religious groups that see God as a 'Person", God's relationship with us has always been propose as a Father to us as His loved children. It is not just Jews and Christians that accept and believe in this relationship, MANY of the world's religions believe along very similar lines.

And again, with this as my model, and having been a father, I would have LOVED to have a system wherein my daughter, with her own true free will (which to me implies that she must be a separate and unique person from me) could have total and complete free will AND that there be NO CHANCE or possibility of her ever offending me or even being able to offend me. I would love to have had such a system, BUT, I suspect that because she is NOT ‘just a part of me' ONLY and MERELY, but that she is also separate and distinct and unique from me as a person, this system is an impossibility. Sure, it sounds, great, but, it must either remove her free will, or mine or somehow make it so that we are not really unique individuals with our ‘own' personalities.

Now granted, being that God holds me in existence, and being that I am indeed just a ‘thought in the mind of God', I am probably more a part of God that Summer is a part of me. BUT, God is not ‘missing' anything because of my ‘separateness'. He has not been decreased, and He does not ‘need' me to become whole again. He remains whole whether I exist (as a thought in His mind) or not. He does not have to ‘reincorporate' me, or any one else, at the end of time.

When and infinite being acts and the result of this action is a limited being (as myself) the infinite being has not ‘lost' anything, nor in any way become less that He was. He is still infinite, complete and whole (holy.) Having ‘created' something outside of Himself (in a limited scope of viewing my existence), this now ‘separate' creature is not now a ‘missing part or piece' of God, for He is missing nothing. This ‘other' that is outside of His ‘personal self' has been created out of His love, and because of this love, the ‘other' has been give his own unique and separate personality. IN THIS, in this separate and unique personality is this created and sustained being's ‘free-will' and because this free-will is in the ‘personality' of the ‘other', it is indeed also separate and unique from God's.

My will is NOT (necessarily) His Will.

My personality is NOT (necessarily) His personality.

If we both had the exact same personality, there would be no distinguishing characteristics of one not in the other, and we would therefore be the same ‘person'. One of us would be a created and limited being, while the other was infinite and uncreated, but we would be the same ‘personality' and therefore the same ‘mind'. NOW, if this were the case, I would agree that I would be unable to offend God, for I would have be offending myself. BUT, He and I are not the same person. In fact, even the Triune Personhood of God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit EACH have their own unique and distinct and separate ‘personalities' and are therefore in reality ‘three PERSONS under one Nature'. This is the essence of the blessed trinity, and the core of how Jesus can claim to be co-equal to and One with the Father, although He is in reality a different and separate ‘person'.

As has already been discussed in another thread, it was possible for Jesus to have sinned. In this, it is possible that Jesus COULD HAVE offended the Father, and in this, sinned against the will of the Father (God the Father.) If Jesus can sin, and offend God (although he never DID) then SURELY we lowly mortals also could sin and offend the father, the son, and the Spirit.

Again, it appears that most new-agers propose and repropose what the believe and think and what logic seems to show them, but they dance around the issue of Christ and His claims. The skirt the issues of God's relationship with man (if it is really like our relationships with out children) and instead of facing the reality of sin, offending God, our Father, hell, and possible damnation, they rather choose to disregard these questions, issues, and hope that it is just all not true and that all of us humans have been lied to and deceived for thousands and thousands of years, now, only now through the amazing minds of a few New-Age thinkers has man discovered the TRUE NATURE and the actual desire and will of the One True God. REJOICE! There is no hell. You cannot offend me. You will all wind up here in heaven no matter what you do, say, think, believe, or choose! You have free will, but it is not capable of offending me! Be happy, don't worry! Do whatever you WANT to do, there are NO consequences! And if there are consequences, you are free to make them whatever you choose to. YOU make your own reality, I give you this power. If you choose to be God, then you are GOD. If you choose to believe that there is sin and evil and a Satan, then you create these thinks ONLY in your limited separateness from me, BUT not in REALITY, in the oneness of I AM.

Think about this reader, logically. If you are right, and WE are incorrect and your are correct, then we all are going to heaven eventually and nothing that we BELIEVE or say or do or think will ever change or effect that. I WILL SEE YOU THERE! And I will be happy admit to you my ignorance of the 'real' truth while here in my mortal life…

BUT, if WE (Christians and Jews) are correct and your are mistaken, some of us are going to be very surprised when God begins what we call ‘judgment' which is for the purpose of separating those whim will eternally ‘be with God' and those whom will instead be ‘eternally cast out of God's presence' and we will holler, 'Wait a minute, I don't believe in sin! I don't accept that a loving and powerful God would allow any of his ‘parts' to go off and be eternally tortured! I do not accept that there is a ‘judgment' and that anyone will be ‘cast out of God's presence for eternity'!" And, at that time, I am very afraid that God might turn to those of us proclaiming these things and day to us, 'I do NOT know you!" implying that in truth, WE did not know Him.

So, you have seen my proposal. You have seen my response to ‘how and why' God and I are separate persons, just as my daughter and I are separate persons. You have seen how I propose that even though we are ‘part' of God, He is still ‘whole' and not diminished nor missing something of Himself because of my separate existence.

I fear that in your scenario, if God was unwilling to allow me to go to Hell, and if I could not stand to be in His presence, His only choice would to be to completely annihilate my existence, and me and that is a fate far worse than eternal punishment.

I know that we have very different beliefs, and I accept both you and your beliefs as you choose to believe them. BUT, I know in my heart that Jesus has called you, and I strongly suspect that you FEAR that all that I am saying is true. I also strongly suspect that deep in your own heart and mind, you know full well that almost everything I am presenting to you is true. Unfortunately, you have found what you think is a safe haven, a belief system that you can live with and that causes you no more guilt and fear. I wish that I could accept that want you think is truth about God and His relations with us, but, alas, I have known Jesus far too long and He has taught me so much that I did not know and now have used to change so many lives for the better.

I tell you this, if all that I have accepted about Jesus and what He has taught me is a lie (as it MUST BE under your belief system), then it is a lie that works extremely well in relations. It is a lie that makes one feel so full and peaceful and joyous inside, when followed closely and lovingly. It is a lie that healed my marriage and many like it. It is a lie that I have seen bring hope and joy to hundreds. It is a lie that I strongly suspect I would rather believe than the truth you have proposed! For, if yours is indeed the truth, and mine the lie, billions are deceived and know not the true nature of God. They spend large parts of their life in worship and service to a God that is false, and whom does not want or need their worship or service. They have terrible guilt over things they have done for they believe they have offended God, where all of this agony and guilt is self-inflicted stupidity and does no good to or for them and all that they do in recompense for their sins is just wasted time and effort, for God was never really offended at all. All of their praying and seeking God is all but a moot disturbance in the cosmic flow of reality, for they cannot avoid God, they are a missing piece of God and He MUST ultimately call all of his missing parts home so that He can again be complete and whole and no longer be missing these parts. This is the truth and the way it IS. Or, it is NOT.

Peniel G.G.G.

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Dear Peniel,

It seems apparent from your last e-mail that we both realize our paths are now diverging.

I wish to attempt to balm your "uneasiness" in my regard by saying that I truly feel my actions stem from no fear of "taking an action" - nor from any fear whatsoever. And yet I suspect that you may find it not an easy matter to accept the unreservedness of this statement. I wish to attempt to "reassure" you (again in regard to me) by saying that I think that I really do understand the fullness of your beliefs and "where you are coming from" (but I also suspect that there may be little likelihood that you shall totally accept this statement either - and yet, I would also understand that possible reluctance as well). I may not further expand upon this matter.

  I shall remain much appreciative of the time, thoughts, and care, which you have shown me -and I truly continue to wish you well in the commendable work which you are doing on His behalf.

  Until/Unless our paths again cross, I leave you with my wish for your continued Peace.

David

Submitted: Mon, Apr 12, 2004 3:10 pm

Subject: I accept both You and Your Beleifs

David,

I am not going to CC this one to the group, as I feel that you might prefer it to be private. If you wish otherwise, say so and I will CC it then.

See my email response that I just sent (04/12/2004 @ 2:00pm) to Kathy for my views regarding what I consider my 'separated' brothers. I will not recount all of it here, for it is there for your reading.

  It seems apparent from your last e-mail that we both realize our paths are now diverging.
I realized that we already had 'different' paths from your second email. I wasn't sure if they were 'irreconcilable' paths, however.

  I wish to attempt to balm your "uneasiness" in my regard by saying that I truly feel my actions stem from no fear of "taking an action" - nor from any fear whatsoever. And yet I suspect that you may find it not an easy matter to accept the unreservedness of this statement.
I do appreciate your 'balming'. It is very helpful to me. I am always 'with' my fellow seekers of truth here in this mortal life 'whatever their choices and beliefs'! My fear is that they might have made an 'uninformed' choice, and as you probably realize, I feel it my Christian duty to both be a witness for Christ and what I believe is "His way", and, to testify as to what He has done to and for me. I believe that in you case, I have amply and adequately both witnessed and testified.

Any further of my 'testimony' or 'witnessing' to you regarding this would merely be nagging, and begging the point already made. I will not do so. I love you and I respect, (really and fully) your choice and beliefs. I know full well that my 'chosen' beliefs are certainly not the only 'correct' or 'valid' beliefs. I also clearly understand that many are 'not able' or 'not willing' to accept the way I have chosen. I am very pleased that God in His infinite wisdom has provided a variety of 'ways', and even beyond that is accepting of any individual person's 'own way'.

I do accept your statement above. I both understand how you have arrived at this belief and my 'fears' that you have arrived at these beliefs primarily as a result of your 'fear' of 'taking action' or some similar thing is now much relieved. I do not think that you have taken you position out of the 'fears' you once had, but I suspect (and hope) that you have indeed made informed and intelligent choices 'IN GOOD CONSCIENCE". I respect this.

I never wanted you to 'do as I do', and I hope you understood this! I always wanted you to believe in YOUR OWN WAY, so long as you had already had proper exposure and information regarding Christianity. I suspected that you had probably 'heard all of it' since you were raised Catholic, but, again, when Christ brings someone to me I feel it my duty (like a Hare-Krishna or a door-knockin' 7th Day Adventist) to make sure you were 'informed' and witnessed to about the life-changing effects that the 'love of God' can have on a person. Again, I have done this to and with you, and I have no doubts about your now being properly informed.

I am very glad that you have helped me to be certain that you have made 'informed' and 'properly-thought out' decisions regarding your faith and beliefs, I accept them now as you pose them.

I wish to attempt to "reassure" you (again in regard to me) by saying that I think that I really do understand the fullness of your beliefs and "where you are coming from" (but I also suspect that there may be little likelihood that you shall totally accept this statement either

Oh contrairre! I do 'totally accept' your statement! Why would you lie? You have nothing to gain. I believe your sincerity just as much as I believe in my sincerity. As a matter of a fact, it would have far easier for you to have simply 'lied' and told me what you think I wanted to hear, and how I was absolutely correct and that you had only believed what you now do based on fear. BUT, you did not do this! You stuck to your guns and told me the truth about your decisions, suspecting that these would merely draw a further tirade of Christian bible-thumping and denouncement of your ways. Not from me, not with how much I know God loves and accepts you! As I have already said, it is my duty to ensure you have made informed decisions and have clearly seen what I believe is the 'Christian point of view' and I am sure you have seen it now. Further attempts to 'sway' you or your beliefs would not only be inappropriate, they would be unloving! You know well my points, you have adequately considered all that I proposed, and you have made you decision! I not only fully accept your decision, I salute your strength and courage in the face of what I know sometimes seems like a religious fanatic's powerful beliefs.

I willingly admit, as you have done previously with me, that my beliefs might well be 'incorrect' and possibly even 'wrong'. I am always willing and anxious to hear alternate points of view from my own, for only in this way can God reach me with the Truth if I am currently under some false beliefs! I also know full well that there are many 'correct' ways to worship and come to God. Just because I believe that 'my chosen' way is in my views, the 'correct' and 'right' way for me, I fully understand and accept that it is NOT the way for everyone. I would never ask others to go as 'far' as I go in my worship, because for many such dealings would be very dangerous, probably even inappropriate.

I am also now 'reassured' that you are clear on 'my beliefs' and 'where I am coming from'. I fully accept this truth from you. David, I know how intelligent you are, it is obvious from your emails. I also know how sincere you are in your quest for Truth. This is why I felt so strongly compelled to make doubly certain that you had adequate exposure to what I knew and believed, for I saw myself reflected in your described situation, many years ago. What God and Jesus have taught and shown me is the subsequent years, what has been acceptable and helpful to so many, I only wanted for you to have the same 'opportunity' to accept it. I fully understand your choices not to, and I am in no way offended, bothered, or upset. As I said, if anything, I am both pleased and proud of you that in the face of such a tirade of mine, you can both stick by your own beliefs, AND, be honest and truthful with me regarding this fact.

You could have tickled my ears with a few lies and I would have happily accepted what you said, but your choice although more difficult, is the nobler and wiser choice: be open, honest and truthful! You have my respect and admiration for that!

 - and yet, I would also understand that possible reluctance as well). I may not further expand upon this matter.
I have no reluctance in accepting a fellow human being, and his chosen beliefs, no matter how different or similar to mine (again, with the reservation that I feel I have done my duty in exposing that person to what I have been taught and given, which I have done with you!)

And, no further expansion is necessary! I understand you.

  I shall remain much appreciative of the time, thoughts, and care, which you have shown me -and I truly continue to wish you well in the commendable work which you are doing on His behalf.
As shall I! With most all of the others in this group, being as they have such similar beliefs to mine, I am very limited in what I can learn from them, and vica-versa. But, with you, and your sometimes 'very different' viewpoints, there is a great opportunity for me (and my fellow 'Christians') to learn from and have our field of vision and scope increased by your opinions and beliefs. I see you as a great blessing both to me, and to the group.

I wish you well in all that you do also, both personally and in His service.

  Until/Unless our paths again cross, I leave you with my wish for your continued Peace.
And peace be yours!

I sincerely hope that you choose to continue at least 'receiving' in this group, and if you are willing, also sharing when you feel like it. If not, and if you choose to leave the group, I will understand... but I will also feel it a great loss to all of us. Please consider staying, for the Love of God. Even if you disregard and delete the majority of the emails without even reading them, I feel that this group needs you and can greatly benefit from you and your viewpoints.

I know it is hard being the only Chinese guy in a Mexican neighborhood, but I feel a strong desire to continue communicating with you, fully respecting your beliefs and choices. I really have learned from and enjoyed all that you have contributed, and I feel your presence is such a blessing and help to our little group.

Your choice, you have my love and respect either way!

Peniel G.G.G.

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