Submitted:  Mon, Feb 23, 2004 2:25 pm
Subject:  sample questions

 

Dear Peniel,

Thank you for responding to my earlier email. I thought it would be fun and profitable to answer the sample questions in your book - who knows what interesting concepts might show up. Although I really don't want to admit it, I  occasionally have a mistaken idea. I have had enough "mystical" experiences to believe that your conversation is true, even if it is filtered. I have read Neal Walsh's work also and am assimilating and crosschecking ideas with my own experience and Christian upbringing.

So: to question #1) What is your one wish in life? I desire to be completely aware and engulfed in God's (Jesus) presence. I know He is present, I just am not always aware. This, of course, would imply correcting of attitudes and understandings. I have had experiences similar to what you describe as the "hug" and it is overwhelming to say the least, I am not strong enough yet to be there all the time (I will deal with the "time" question later)

I think one question at a time is good - emails get unmanageable if I do more.
Thank you for your willingness to discuss issues on a deep (if casual) level.

In Christ,

Kathy

 

Submitted:  Mon, Feb 23, 2004 3:25 pm
Subject:  Re: sample questions

 

Kathy,
 
Extremely "good" answer. It goes very deep. Give me a few days to compose a verbose answer to your answer and send it to you regarding question 1.
 
BTW - I think that yours is probably the 'best' "short-answer" that I have ever received to this first and most important question! I am very proud and pleased... You explanation added to your answer show your depth of understanding and awareness of your current limitations. Very concise!
 
I will send you my long-winded comments in a few days, after I gather my thoughts about your intriguing answer...
 
 
Yours in Christ,


Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Mon, Feb 23, 2004 3:45 pm
Subject: 

 

Peniel,

 

Thank you for your rapid response. Take all the time you want to respond with a "verbose" answer. I know you might have a few other things to do in your life, and I am just happy to converse with someone on this level

 

- Kathy

 

Submitted:  Sat, Mar 20, 2004 9:57 pm
Subject:  Sample Question # 2

 

Greetings Peniel,

Today I thought I would discuss sample question #2 . There is a lot of open space in the wording of the question. If I knew I only had 1 week to live, what I would do depends on several factors. If I was mentally and physically capable (i.e.: I have a date with death from a car accident...) I would make sure that I wrapped up as many loose ends as possible, so that my family could continue their journey here as easily as they could. I would make sure my husband had all the practical information he needs (where DO I keep the tax records, etc) I would, of course, assure my family and friends that everything is OK, I love them, and that won't stop just because I am changing my mode of existence. (Incidentally, I have been in the position of thinking I had a very good chance of dying in the next 24 hours, and I was upset mostly because of the frustrations I knew my family would experience, because at the time I did not have the capacity to take care of these issues. My husband would miss me greatly, but he does understand my love for him. - On the way to the E.R., I managed to call my place of work and explain the situation and asked them to cancel my activities until further notice.)

In a different scenario, depending on the level of incapacitation, I would do what I could to reassure the people around me, and to forgive others for as needed (i.e.- a hospitalization caused a condition that would lead to death)

If I became completely incapacitated, the rest of the world will just have to go on without me. I'm sure it can be done!

The question asked what I would do, which I translate to mean action. You should know that I have the expectation that Jesus walks the walk with me.

That's about it - BTW - diet would be thrown to the wind! -

In Christ,

Kathy

 

Submitted:  Tue, Mar 23, 2004 9:01 am
Subject:  Re: Sample Question # 2

 

Kathy,
 
Again, very incisive answers. Many people, faced with their own imminent death are amazingly selfish with their time and explain to me in great detail how they would then do all the things they always wanted to do, run up their credit card bills, take that trip to Hawaii they always wanted, etc.
 
Your answers show that you have both a deep love for those around you and a untypical selflessness that is rare today.
 
One curious thing I noticed... In all of your preparations for your death, there was not one mention of God, Jesus, the church, salvation, forgiveness, confession, etc. Knowing what I already do about you, I could only surmise that the reason for this is that you feel absolutely confident and comfortable in and with your relationship with God, Jesus, and your chosen faith.
 
As strange as it may seem, when most people answer this question, only rarely (about 10%) does anyone ever mention God, the church, or in any way attempt to "prepare" himself or herself for meeting their Maker. I suspect that in most people's cases, it goes to show that although they do indeed offer Him lip service once a week or more, when they are actually put to the test and given the chance to show their true choice, God doesn't even enter into their minds... even with a full week to prepare! Very odd, I always thought.
 
Anyway, you might consider this fact, that given a full week for all the preparations you 'chose', that God didn't enter into your plans. Perhaps you are completely at peace and have utter faith in your relationship with Him. (I wish that I had such trust and faith, personally.)
 
Boy, at the first mention that my physical death might be anywhere in my vicinity, I am on my knees begging God fervently for forgiveness for all of my sins, even those I am certain have been washed clean in the past. I also pray hard that I will be given final perseverance, for if I am not dead yet, I still greatly fear that between now and when I do die, I will offend Him (as I do so often) and again risk my immortal soul.
 
Come to think of it, if I honestly believed that I had only a week to live, my family would have to come and visit me at the church, because I believe that they couldn't pry me away from there, in my mediocre attempts to prepare myself to meet Him AGAIN. They'd have to bring in additional staff to handle me in the church, for I am not about to leave there until I am gone for good.
 
Possible food for thought for you to contemplate...

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted:  Fri, Apr 02, 2004 11:39 pm
Subject:  cc/bcc

 

Greetings Peniel,

I knew there would be a lot of discussion going on, and I am happy to be included. I was rather astounded to have so much material in my mailbox. I will take some time to consider the discussions. I am pressed for time right now, so may not be doing a lot of commenting, but please continue to keep me in the loop.

I read most of your dissertation on "holiness", though it is late and my eyes are not focusing well, so will go over it again later, but did just want to comment that the connection in English between "holy" and "wholly" seems significant. The "I AM" is wholly - complete, sovereign.

Until later,

In Christ,

 Kathy

 

Submitted:  Tue, Mar 23, 2004 9:55 am
Subject:  about Jesus and me

 

Hi Peniel,

Thank you for your comments. They are helpful - perhaps you didn't notice the line that says, "the expectation is that Jesus walks the walk with me" or something to that effect. I have never been good at cramming for final exams, and while a life review is always good, my life review is on a continuing basis. I can't be who I am not. Jesus has this figured out. That is part of the reason for this conversation - to continue to "become." As C. S Lewis asks "how can we face God until we have faces?"  Death is a transition from life to life. I expect Jesus to be true to His nature and to love me completely. I think that if there is an unrealized unconfessed problem (sin - I've missed the mark, I've misunderstood) unless I am completely unrepentant in the face of mercy, I will walk with Him. It is because of His nature, not mine. I seem to recall several passages that indicate this as truth - paraphrase: All sins will be forgiven man, even blasphemy against the Son of Man, but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven, now or in the life to come" (my understanding of the "sin against the Holy Spirit" is that state that a person can get to that is a heart that cannot respond to God in any way. If that is the state of denial, how could God save such a one?")  God didn't make us to destroy us. I accept that. Am I without error? Absolutely not, but I am working on understanding.

Please continue to write - the challenge is good. I will reread your comments several times.

In Christ,

Kathy

Submitted: Wed, Mar 24, 2004 3:01 pm
Subject:  poem

 

Hi Peniel,

Several months ago I was in a class that required a written statement of our personal relationship with God. I was "given" this - it may explain a lot, or it may muddy the waters. Happy reading. - Kathy

                          You Said

You said, “I Am that I Am."

I said, "You are that You Are."

You said, "It is not enough."

And then you wrapped three tendrils of Grace around this stiff heart,

Sparking it to life,

Setting it free to the beat of Your own wild heart.

And I said, "How is it that You love me so much?"

And You said, "I Am that I Am."

I said, "You Are that You Are. Hold my hand."

You said, "I Am that I Am. Come dance with Me."

I said. "Amen."

 

 

Submitted:  Sat, Apr 03, 2004 4:54 pm
Subject:  Peniel’s reply to Art about Holiness

 

Art wrote:

 For me Holy means part of the whole.  Part of the I AM and everything is.

 

Peniel replies:
Art,
 
I love that. Very concise. You know, as I was going through the origins of the word 'holy' and realized that it was derived from the word 'whole' it set my mind reeling a little.
 
And, your assessment is right on target, the 'whole' originally could ONLY have meant He Who Is, for He was all that was. Indeed, He was surely 'whole' in Himself, hence, He was 'Holy'.
 
The part that fascinates me is where a 'mundane' (I loved that word usage in this instance) object such as a person, building or cup gets 'set aside' - FOR God, or FOR His use OR FOR His service; and IF He ACCEPTS it, He makes it 'holy'.
 
How can a cup, now separate (in a sense) from the 'Whole' once again become 'part of the whole'?
 
When God accepts the cup to be used in a worship service to Him, does He 'change its essence' and it is somehow then more a part of Him than before its consecration?
 
I know that the 'accidents' (physical characteristics, attributes, etc) of the cup in no way change, but it is possible that its 'essence' (that part of it which is not part of this physical universe, its 'spirit' if you will, that part of it that 'touches God' - as God holds all things in existence, He is constantly 'in touch' with all things) - perhaps this 'essence' of it is somehow changed?
 
Perhaps that now that it is NOT mundane, but holy, God holds it is 'special regard' in His mind, as He holds it in existence?
 
I am unsure how this 'holiness' truly effects the cup, for I understand it contains a mystery, possibly unfathomable by us as we are now?
 
What I do know is this: when God 'accepts a person' as 'set aside for His service' (as He did me, many years ago) He effects an actual change in them. I was given a short (30 seconds) vision of Him and at the end He forced me to look into His eyes. When our eyes met, there was an indescribably powerful 'Communion' that happened - between us. Somehow, what I had been before was instantly and completely changed. The feelings that were associated with this event are also beyond words, but it was as if huge lightning bolts of electricity were suddenly surging throughout my entire body, limited only at the internal surfaces of my skin. To say the least, it was 'quite an experience'. I can fully understand how Moses' hair turned instantly white. This 'defining moment' in my life transformed my 'soul', not my body. My 'personality' was vastly altered...
 
No, that's not really true. What really happened was that the personality I was 'showing to others', the 'fake masks' I wore around others in order to be acceptable, the 'games I played' with my actions around others so that they would like me, in fact, ALL of the 'phoniness' that I had piled up in my personality for all those years was instantly 'blown off', like a blanket over a cannon. What remained, I believe, was my TRUE SELF! The exact same innocent, loving, and beautiful personality that I had as a child - my TRUE me.
 
He somehow instantly removed all the garbage that I had collected for years, and I was instantly made clean. What's more impressive, I was given power. I am unsure if this power had been there, in me, all along, but it was certainly there now.
 
Also, in that instant of Communion we shared, I saw EVERYTHING, and suddenly understood everything. He 'imparted' directly into my mind all of the knowledge, understanding, and even some wisdom that I had for years longed for and searched for. It is difficult to explain, but He gave me a 'foretaste' of heaven itself, and this 'glimpse' of heaven both transforms a person, makes them holy, removes their soul's garbage, calls forth the innocent child (true self), empowers them (kinda like an internal spring of electric water that contains immense power), and at the same time, teaches them all that there is to know that is of true value.
 
After that 30 seconds, I really have not 'learned' anything new. It was ALL given to me then, in an instant. I could not 'comprehend' all of it at once, in my limited human mind, but it is right there. As time went on, and I began teaching, I realized that I was drawing on this wellspring within me, that had all of the answers to all of our questions, and that I already 'knew' this thing I just said, although it was the first time that the thoughts / words had come out in my mind and been expressed.
 
I guess, it would be best summed up by saying that I was 'blessed' (the clearest and most widely-encompassing word that covers many of the aspects of my transformation). This blessing caused me to suddenly become 'holy', for after that, I was so enveloped in the desire to serve God, and only to serve God, that it was originally quite difficult to control or contain myself. I wanted to grab people and tell them, HE IS!!!! I wanted to express to them the answers to all of those important answers they were seeking. But, few are called. Those not called, can not hear.
 
This blessing instantly changed all of my actions (which I later came to realize were dictated by my personality, my accepted 'belief-set'.) Since my personality and 'belief-set' had been so radically altered (back to what it originally was - the real ME) my life and actions did a 180% turn. My wife thought I was on some wonderful drug that made me love her, serve her, take care of her, make her happy, seek ways to express my love to her, find new ways to give her joy, align my mind and attitude and desires and will an want completely with hers, such that whatever she desired became my goal. What she sought was my task. What she didn't accept or like was abhorrent to me. I become a magnifying mirror to her personality. Our love blissomed. It grew far beyond what we had ever known before. I became a true lover. I loved he madly, deeply, completely! I realized that my mission in life was to make HER happy! And, I knew exactly HOW to do that. I realized that my love expressed to her in a variety of ways was the source of her joy. I lavished the love God gave me on her. The most amazing part was that she, without having received this vision, she was eventually also 'changed' by my love. I came to realize, when someone is loved so purely, so intensely, with the very love God has for them, after some time (about six months, in my wife's case) she began to change. The love I was lavishing on her FORCED her to become a better person. She began loving me - more purely, more intensely, in more ways. She began asking, "Is there anything you would like for me to do for you?" To this ver day, she gets me coffee (while I sleep), runs my bath, starts my car, empties the trash, mows the lawn (huge), and does ALL of the household chores that I never really 'enjoyed' doing. What's more amazing, she LOVES doing these things, because it more deeply shows me her love! She actually wants to 'help' me, and be my 'helpmate' as fully as she can! She does 'EVERYTHING' so that all of my time os free to help you guys and gals! She knows how important this is to me, and she assist in it in this way. She has never understood or grasped my calling, but she accepts it. She has seen how it has transformed so many peoples lives, and sometimes I think she was a little scared by the apparent power I seemed to have over other people. I supposed over the years she has grown accustomed to all of it. She lets me go over to some seekers house, and spend long hours away from home. She never doubts me or thinks I might be cheating or something. She has GREAT FAITH in me, and this is to HER credit, certainly not my doing. My GOD, how blessed I am to have such a helpmate, the very source of all of my joy, and She LOVES ME! She is mine for life! She is my Christ to Love, and I LOVE her to death! 
 
OK, back to the story of my transformation. For a few weeks, the 'high' effect that I had been given continued and only slowly faded. I ha this constant smile, and could only tell people, "You JUST DON'T KNOW!" There was no explanation possible. As the high faded, the clear vision of what Jesus looked like faded with it. I can now no longer recall the details of His face; it is veiled in shadows in my memory. However, the effects it affected in me remained, steadfast and true, and I have been His now for 25 years (this happened in late April, 1979).
 
Now to the heart of why I am revealing all of this. Art, what you said about 'holiness' merely being a part of the 'I AM' - the true 'wholeness', all I can say is WOW! That hits the nail right on the head with all that I have described. What actually occurred, in making me 'holy' was that God somehow 'accepted me' into His presence, into His very 'self'. He somehow 'joined' us, like in a marriage when a man and woman are joined. Oh, I joined willingly, lovingly, and wantingly! But, before I was allowed to be let in His presence and joined with Him, I had to be bathed and cleansed spiritually. I was. The joining then brought the power, knowledge, understanding, wisdom desire, and my return to 'innocence'.
 
I am going to have to stop here as recalling all of this has gotten me very verclept.
 
 
FATHER! I am SO YOURS! Please use me and teach and help all of these seekers to come to where you have brought me, if they are willing and if it is in your good time.

Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Sat, Apr 03, 2004 7:54 pm
Subject:  Holiness discussion

 

Greetings,

 

Thanks for this discussion. I understand what is being said. I really think everything is "holy" except those that choose not to be holy (whole) - if we recognized that we would treat each other and the world quite differently. It is as you say, when we are cleansed of the garbage we like to hang on to and see it for what it is we become our true selves.(in an instant or in a lifetime) As far as I know, we humans are the only beings on the planet that can make this choice. This is a great privilege and an awesome responsibility. How long will it be before we realize that "wholiness" is our natural designed state of being? (Unfortunately, I can't claim to be in that state yet.)

I can see from these communications that you must be overwhelmed with your writing. I had wondered about that and wondered how in the world you would have time to respond to everyone that writes. I have not yet received your "verbose" responses that you indicated you were sending. Not to worry.

Your questions: I have no problems with being part of the BCC group - my writing is open- if there comes a time when something is more private, I will indicate that. I am interested in your collection of writings. Go ahead and send them and I will filter through as I am able. However, I don't think I could handle a 20-page answer to anything. The mind goes after about 2 pages. Sorry. I could sit and discuss for days on end, but the eyes won't take it.

I had an experience about 30 years ago that was similar to, but a shadow of what you describe, but even that was overwhelming. I felt and saw a burning light - much like the sun with an electrical punch enter the top of my head and fill my body - I "saw" the inside of my body filled with a gold light and there were some words written in front of my eyes that I could not read. I still have no idea what they were. I interpreted this as the infilling of the Holy Spirit. I have been becoming myself ever since.

In Christ,

Kathy

 

Submitted:  Mon, Apr 05, 2004 11:08 am
Subject:  Down-time

 

Greetings,

In one of the recent discussions (i believe it was Dave) on the marriage relationship, the thought occurred to me that the couple (Dave and Ann?) perhaps were not getting enough "down" time. From the information it seems that they were together 24/7 at work and at home. In my experience, my marriage suffers from overload when we have that kind of schedule. We need some time apart in order to become more as individuals so that we have something to bring back to the other.(I admit to being more solitary than most people I know, so this may not apply to anyone else in the group) As always, sprinkling this message liberally with salt may be a good idea.

In Christ,

Kathy

 

Submitted:  Mon, Apr 05, 2004 2:28 pm
Subject: Marital Problems Discussion
BCC: KC, DC, JG, Biyn, DM, AP, TW, SH

Kathy,
 
Excellent input on the discussion, I will pass it along to all!
 
In one of the recent discussions (i believe it was Dave) on the marriage relationship, the thought occurred to me that the couple (Dave and Ann?) perhaps were not getting enough "down" time. From the information it seems that they were together 24/7 at work and at home. In my experience, my marriage suffers from overload when we have that kind of schedule. We need some time apart in order to become more as individuals so that we have something to bring back to the other.(I admit to being more solitary than most people I know, so this may not apply to anyone else in the group) As always, sprinkling this message liberally with salt may be a good idea.

I might ask Dave:
Do you ever feel that part of your marital problems might be that you have to spend every minute with your wife?
 
Do you sometimes seek solitude or some 'down time' as Kathy so eloquently put it?

I understand that my psychological studies show that often two people 'forced together' for long periods of time with little or no hope of avoiding each other creates great tensions in their relationship, such as those people in the Mars Mission test lab, several months in a small chamber, or those that go on the space lab. It is very common that they report such severe difficulties. we evidently 'irritate' each other, and focus upon this irritations until they get blown out of proportion.
 
Does anyone else have any input or experience of similar issues. Perhaps even some advice?
 
On a personally note: I would like nothing else than to spend my every moment with my beloved wife, BUT, she finds me tedious after some time, and I clearly understand her need to 'get away from me sometimes.' We communicate extremely well, and of course she tells me when this is the case. I (wisely) allow her the freedom to do whatever she feels compelled to do, and indeed, time apart often seems to make the heart grow fonder (or at least, more tolerant of my many idiosyncrasies!) The obvious salt is required for my advice, also.
 

Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Mon, Apr 05, 2004 5:29 pm
Subject: Walking with Jesus
BCC: KC, DC, JG, Biyn, DM, AP, TW,  SH

Kathy,
 
(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your comments. They are helpful - perhaps you didn't notice the line that says, "the expectation is that Jesus walks the walk with me" or something to that effect. I have never been good at cramming for final exams, and while a life review is always good, my life review is on a continuing basis. I can't be who I am not. Jesus has this figured out. That is part of the reason for this conversation - to continue to "become." As C. S Lewis asks "how can we face God until we have faces?"  
I understand and wholeheartedly concur. Each morning, I prepare myself for death TODAY. Each night, I am pleasantly surprised to still be here, in His service. I anxiously await the ferryman to take me across that final river, where Jesus waits to embrace me for all times.
 
I do know precisely how you feel, for I always feel so close to God that it would be a minor and trivial matter if He said today, "Come with me."
 
Death is a transition from life to life. I expect Jesus to be true to His nature and to love me completely. I think that if there is an unrealized unconfessed problem (sin - I've missed the mark, I've misunderstood) unless I am completely unrepentant in the face of mercy, I will walk with Him. It is because of His nature, not mine. I seem to recall several passages that indicate this as truth - paraphrase: All sins will be forgiven man, even blasphemy against the Son of Man, but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven, now or in the life to come" (my understanding of the "sin against the Holy Spirit" is that state that a person can get to that is a heart that cannot respond to God in any way. If that is the state of denial, how could God save such a one?")  God didn't make us to destroy us. I accept that.
 
Am I without error? Absolutely not, but I am working on understanding.
Nor am I. Even with all that I have learned, and all that He has taught me, I still count myself as a 'foolish man' for I so often deny Him and refuse His love for me.

Please continue to write - the challenge is good. I will reread your comments several times.
Sorry this one took so long. As you know, I am happily swamped (and wish to continue this way!)

May God cause His face to shine upon you.
 
TAG, you’re it.

Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Tue, Apr 06, 2004 10:48 am
Subject:  The Spiritual Discussion Group Archives

 

Greetings

Thanks for the archives - went there last night to read for a while. In your last email you "tagged" me. So I know I'm "IT" and will continue with the questions a little later - I am trying to get ready for an art show and it is very time consuming.  I just wanted to let you know that I am getting double emails when you send them - check to see that my address isn't in there twice or whatever. Thanks.

In Christ,

Kathy

 

Submitted:  Tue, Apr 06, 2004 4:54 pm
Subject: Re: Holiness Discussion
BCC: DC, JG, Biyn, DM, AP, TW,  SH

Kathy,
 
(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
This time I put you on the TO list, BUT not on the BCC list. See if you get this one twice.
 
Thanks for this discussion. I understand what is being said. I really think everything is "holy" except those that choose not to be holy (whole) - if we recognized that we would treat each other and the world quite differently. It is as you say, when we are cleansed of the garbage we like to hang on to and see it for what it is we become our true selves.(in an instant or in a lifetime) As far as I know, we humans are the only beings on the planet that can make this choice. This is a great privilege and an awesome responsibility. How long will it be before we realize that "wholiness" is our natural designed state of being? (Unfortunately, I can't claim to be in that state yet.)
WOW! I see what you mean here and I never considered that point of view before. God made EVERYTHING. Everything that God made was holy. After God made some beings with free will, ONLY then did 'unholiness' come into being. Nothing 'displeased' God until beings with free will displeased Him. Nothing else COULD displease Him! And that blows me away; all things are holy except personal beings with personalities and free wills. I kinda always considered that most everything was 'not holy' unless and until it was 'consecrated, blessed, etc' and thusly 'set aside' for God and His service. Maybe, this has something to do with the 'nature' of 'stuff' and possibly the original 'fall' of man? It bears further discussion and pondering, of that I am sure!
 
I can see from these communications that you must be overwhelmed with your writing. I had wondered about that and wondered how in the world you would have time to respond to everyone that writes. I have not yet received your "verbose" responses that you indicated you were sending. Not to worry.
Oh my God. I have a great job that is so full of spare time that I can sit literally 7 hours a day and write to you guys and gals, and still have plenty of time for my work. I just have to 'be here' (kinda like a fireman, he has to be there, but usually, he has a lot of spare time.) And, of course, I am quite certain that at this date and time, Dad has arranged it thus so that I could answer all of this. I also have the evenings and the weekends, and when I am supposed to be sleeping, etc. Since this gives me such a high, and it is so important a work, I will type til my fingers bleed, or until I get tired and bored with all of you (not likely!) I keep a separate folder for 'respond to' but as it overflows, I will purge the less important less interesting for the good of the group. I am sure you understand and don't mind. 

Your questions: I have no problems with being part of the BCC group - my writing is open- if there comes a time when something is more private, I will indicate that. I am interested in your collection of writings. Go ahead and send them and I will filter through as I am able. However, I don't think I could handle a 20 page answer to anything. The mind goes after about 2 pages. Sorry. I could sit and discuss for days on end, but the eyes won't take it.
I don't know, both of the responses to Dave regarding his marital problems where Jesus took over and taught were quite long, but beautiful and full of powerful tools and truths.

I had an experience about 30 years ago that was similar to, but a shadow of what you describe, but even that was overwhelming. I felt and saw a burning light - much like the sun with an electrical punch enter the top of my head and fill my body - I "saw" the inside of my body filled with a gold light and there were some words written in front of my eyes that I could not read. I still have no idea what they were. I interpreted this as the infilling of the Holy Spirit. I have been becoming myself ever since.
I strongly suspect that God often attempts to reveal Himself to us, in a variety of ways. Alas, we are mostly too calloused and hard-of-heart to hear such whispers in the dark recesses of our soul.


Peniel G.G.G

 

Submitted:  Tue, Apr 06, 2004 4:54 pm
Subject: Re: Holiness Discussion
BCC: DC, JG, Biyn, DM, AP, TW,  SH

Kathy,
 
(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
This time I put you on the TO list, BUT not on the BCC list. See if you get this one twice.
 
Thanks for this discussion. I understand what is being said. I really think everything is "holy" except those that choose not to be holy (whole) - if we recognized that we would treat each other and the world quite differently. It is as you say, when we are cleansed of the garbage we like to hang on to and see it for what it is we become our true selves.(in an instant or in a lifetime) As far as I know, we humans are the only beings on the planet that can make this choice. This is a great privilege and an awesome responsibility. How long will it be before we realize that "wholiness" is our natural designed state of being? (unfortunately, I can't claim to be in that state yet.)
WOW! I see what you mean here and I never considered that point of view before. God made EVERYTHING. Everything that God made was holy. After God made some beings with free will, ONLY then did 'unholiness' come into being. Nothing 'displeased' God until beings with free will displeased Him. Nothing else COULD displease Him! And that blows me away, all things are holy except personal beings with personalities and free wills. I kinda always considered that most everything was 'not holy' unless and until it was 'consecrated, blessed, etc' and thusly 'set aside' for God and His service. Maybe, this has something to do with the 'nature' of 'stuff' and possibly the original 'fall' of man? It bears further discussion and pondering, of that I am sure!
 
I can see from these communications that you must be overwhelmed with your writing. I had wondered about that and wondered how in the world you would have time to respond to everyone that writes. I have not yet received your "verbose" responses that you indicated you were sending. Not to worry.
Oh my God. I have a great job that is so full of spare time that I can sit literally 7 hours a day and write to you guys and gals, and still have plenty of time for my work. I just have to 'be here' (kinda like a fireman, he has to be there, but usually, he has a lot of spare time.) And, of course, I am quite certain that at this date and time, Dad has arranged it thus so that I could answer all of this. I also have the evenings and the weekends, and when I am supposed to be sleeping, etc. Since this gives me such a high, and it is so important a work, I will type til my fingers bleed, or until I get tired and bored with all of you (not likely!) I keep a separate folder for 'respond to' but as it overflows, I will purge the less important less interesting for the good of the group. I am sure you understand and don't mind. 

Your questions: I have no problems with being part of the BCC group - my writing is open- if there comes a time when something is more private, I will indicate that. I am interested in your collection of writings. Go ahead and send them and I will filter through as I am able. However, I don't think I could handle a 20 page answer to anything. The mind goes after about 2 pages. Sorry. I could sit and discuss for days on end, but the eyes won't take it.
I don't know, both of the responses to Dave regarding his marital problems where Jesus took over and taught were quite long, but beautiful and full of powerful tools and truths.

I had an experience about 30 years ago that was similar to, but a shadow of what you describe, but even that was overwhelming. I felt and saw a burning light - much like the sun with an electrical punch enter the top of my head and fill my body - I "saw" the inside of my body filled with a gold light and there were some words written in front of my eyes that  I could not read. I still have no idea what they were. I interpreted this as the infilling of the Holy Spirit. I have been becoming myself ever since.
I strongly suspect that God often attempts to reveal Himself to us, in a variety of ways. Alas, we are mostly too calloused and hard-of-heart to hear such whispers in the dark recesses of our soul.


Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Tue, Apr 06, 2004 10:49 pm
Subject:  A Finite world

 

Greetings Peniel,

Several years ago I pondered the question of why we live in a finite world (silly question, yeah?)  Anyway, if God can do anything and we are made in His image, why do we have restrictions? It occurred to me that we obey most of God's laws because we don't have a choice. (Nobody does anti-gravity) All physical laws are God's laws. The only laws we really have a choice about are laws regarding relationships. (Check out the Ten Commandments.)  That line of reasoning led me to the (obvious) conclusion that we are 1) not given a choice in laws that directly affect our survivability as a species,(though this point could be argued successfully in a "free will" discussion) and 2)the limitations we have are so that we must make a choice and declare ourselves in agreement with God or not. We do this in how we choose to spend our resources - health, wealth, time, etc. These thoughts relate to wholeness, though my mind isn't into elaborating right now.

Later - In Christ,

Kathy

Submitted:  Wed, Apr 07, 2004 4:39 pm
Subject: A Finite world, Free-will and choice only re relationships

BCC: DC, JG, Biyn, DM, AP, TW, SH

My dear Kathy,

 
(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
How is it that you can propose such mind-bending enigmatic questions is such a short email?
 
Greetings Peniel,

Several years ago I pondered the question of why we live in a finite world (silly question, yeah?)

Einstein would agree with you. The physical universe is indeed 'finite', yet it is also unbounded. You can travel in any directions and will never hit a wall or barrier, YET, there is only so much space, and no more. If you began filling space with one foot cubic blocks, one beside and behind the last one placed, you would eventually place the last one and there will be no more room for another. Granted, it would take a lot of cubes, but it is INDEED a FINITE number. Now, the very fact that a human being is a spiritual being 'confined' during mortal life in a physical body, indeed, CONFINES us (both our body and that which is confined in our body) to be in, live in, and must needs be obey the laws of the physical universe. I agree with you wholeheartedly.
 
 
Anyway, if God can do anything and we are made in His image, why do we have restrictions?
Now, we have another paradoxical enigma (my favorite breakfast cereal!) Are we indeed 'restricted'? And, is this restriction complete, all-encompassing, and in every way and respect regarding the true nature of human beings. Let me propose to you a parallel paradox and from it we can discover a new truth about the nature of man.
 
Is there a limit on how much you 'can' know?
 
 Let's say that God changed His mind and allowed you to live as man did before, several hundred years. Let us also suppose, that for the sake of argument, you found the answer to human being's genetic aging and reversed it in yourself. Now, you will not age. Every seven years, your body's cells replace themselves with an exact and perfect copy, and therefore you are 'presumably' immortal. We must presume this immortality,for you could still be killed by disease or a car accident. Let us further suppose that you somehow avoided all fatal diseases and accidents, and that you lived 'A VERY LONG TIME' (let us us suppose, one billion years.)
 
Now, in that billion years, you decide that knowledge is of great personal interest and value to you, and you therefore decide to 'learn a lot'. You begin by reading books. You read every book that is written. You also study nature, you study birds, bees, insects, crocogators and elephinos. You make detailed and exacting studies of their habits, their actions, their life cycles, etc. Each time, you write detailed reports which you later review and read again.
 
You also use digital media and begin filming things, your life, others lives, the squirrels in your back yard, your neighbors and their day to day activities. All of this digital film you review, write reports on, write treatise about, etc. All that you write, you also read back to yourself and learn what you have written. You also gain the ability to have a 'photographic memory' (whether learned, taught, or natural ability is moot point). All that you read, and write, and see is easily brought back up in your conscious at a mere thought or desire.
 
Here is the question, is there a LIMIT to how much one person can 'know'? Is there some last thought, that after let's say four-hundred million years of continuous learning that you have somehow 'reached your limit' and 'capacity' and there is not ONE MORE thing that you are able to learn and retain and remember, UNLESS, you lose or remove or purge from your mind some other thought, idea, or memory?
 
I suspect that you will realize, as did I through logic and reasoning, that indeed, we humans have an INFINITE capacity to learn, to know, and to remember. Indeed, there are those specially gifted persons that not only remember everything that they 'read' or that happened to them or whatever, but who can also easily recall this information to mind (photographic memory for material read, or events experienced, etc.)
 
No matter how much we 'know' we can always learn and retain another fact. There is NO LIMIT to how much one person, given the time and desire and opportunity, can learn and retain. In addition, if we truly 'remember' our past experiences, as I believe that we all do, this sheer volume of information contained in that portion of our 'event' memory for a normal lifespan would be vast beyond comprehension.
 
If my proposal is true: our capacity to know and learn is INFINITE, then this 'memory' cannot be in our physical 'brain' in our physical head, in our limited body, in this limited universe. Our 'memory' must exist 'elsewhere' outside of the physical universe. Indeed, during our lives, and for all practical purposes, we need our bodies and our brains to access and process this information from our physical senses... but, what about sleep.
 
Where do 'we' go when we sleep? I am still me, but now I am on a date with Britney Spears whom is desperate to marry me. A few hours later, when I come back to reality (with the apparent noise of a frying pan being smacked against the back of my head and my wife's shouting, "I'll show you Britney Spears!") when reality again returns to me, along with the new knots on my head, I am married to Gail, and Britney is no where to be found... except in my memory... uhmmmm, precious memory!
 
I digress.
 
 
It occurred to me that we obey most of God's laws because we don't have a choice. (Nobody does anti-gravity) All physical laws are God's laws. The only laws we really have a choice about are laws regarding relationships. (check out the Ten Commandments.)  That line of reasoning led me to the (obvious) conclusion that we are 1) not given a choice in laws that directly affect our survivability as a species,(though this point could be argued successfully in a "free will" discussion) and 2)the limitations we have are so that we must make a choice and declare ourselves in agreement with God or not.
All of this below is excerpted from a couple of my workshops:
 
I will go you one farther and better! We cannot even choose whom or what we LOVE. God chooses this for us. Our ONLY choice, in relationships, is whether we WILL express the love God has given us for the 'other', and in what way we will express this love. We can do naught but love them, for God has chosen to 'love them' through us. We can only choose to 'use the love God has given us for this other' or to not use it. We can limit it, we can stain it with selfishness, and we can choose to withhold it in part or entirety, but, that is our only choice.
 
In this is our ONLY free will: we WILL accept God's love for us, and, we WILL allow His love to be expressed through us to 'others'. We have no choice but these two, and even these two are intricately bound. BUT, what A WONDERFUL CHOICE! If our only choice is to be loved by God, and to love others with God's own love, if we allow it, we become both the VESSEL (cup) containing God's wonderful and powerful love, and the VESSEL (ship) that brings God's healing and joy-bringing love to others.
 
We cannot choose what God will send or give to us, we can only choose to accept it or reject it. And, even if we reject it, it does not change the fact that it is here! We cannot choose whom will be around us. God chooses that for us too. We can only choose 'how do we respond' to these 'others' and in this, again, the real choice we are making is 'are we showing them the love God has given me for them' or not, and if so, in what measure, purity, power (level) and vehicle (way).
 
The REAL DEEPER Truth is this: GOD is loving Himself (the good in the other person) through US. God is loving Himself through us. He is merely allowing US the choice as to what vessel, what level, how pure or impure, etc. AND, as we are indeed a part of God: God is loving God through God. He is allowing US to partake of the divine LOVE-TRIANGLE by being His vessel (cup) and His vessel (ship) if we ALLOW.
 
The REALLY DEEP TRUTH is this: if we ALLOW, God Himself will choose the most proper and appropriate way and method and vehicle to love the other through us. Indeed, our best choice is to sit quietly in the back seat while He Drives! (This is what I do a lot! As a matter of a fact, I feel very much like a passenger right now as I strongly suspect His hand is in these explanations of the true nature of 'man's free will'.)
 
 
We do this in how we choose to spend our resources - health, wealth, time, etc. These thoughts relate to wholeness, though my mind isn't into elaborating right now.
BOY  MINE IS! You have struck another spiritual nail right on the head. How we spend our resources - health, wealth, and especially our most limited, precious, and VALUABLE resource: TIME. How we spend these resources reveals our 'god'. (Note the small "g" there.)
 
Whatever a person truly believes is the Highest Good, that which to him or her is most gooooooooood, is their 'god'. If you want to know what your true god is, look at how you spend your 'spare' time. In that 'freedom' you will typically pursue what you feel you 'need', 'lack', 'want', and 'desire', more than all else. This, then, is you god. It is not necessarily God (the Creator), it is much more likely: fame, fortune, relief from stress, relaxation, ENTERTAINMENT, or some similar triviality.
 
Think about it, if your truly 'valued' and 'sought' God (the Creator) above all else, how 'WOULD' you really spend your spare time?
 
Now, I realize, that I am preaching to the choir here in this BCC Spiritual Discussion group, for each and every one of you has devoted heaps and gobs of their spare time in both entertaining me with your problems, questions, paradoxes, enigmas, and 'posers'; and, you have spent long hours tickling my ego by 'supposedly' reading some of my verbose and gargantuan dribble. I know that you all already indeed 'seek' Him, and you are therefore the choir to which I am preaching. But, this treatise will one day be read by many others, and they might not be in this choir!
 
later - In Christ,
Kathy

I love you, Kathy. Jesus loves you too, He just told me so!
TAG.


Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Wed, Apr 07, 2004 10:48 pm
Subject:  We need each other

 

Greetings Peniel,

This is a fascinating response. I'm glad your mind is working hard on these ideas. I think I agree with you  on the learning- our capacity is infinite, especially if you consider it being held in the mind of God. (As an aside though I consider mental defect.) Here in the physical world, disease and disorders interfere with infinite learning. I grew up in a church that stressed having the right knowledge as key to being in right relationship with God. Obviously that can't be true because there are people with out the capacity to learn. That thought of course brings its own challenges.

In about the fourth paragraph you talk about God loving Himself through our loving each other. This is true and was revealed to me at a VERY young age, though it took a while to process into words. I had one of "those" kinds of dreams where I saw shapes - triangles made of round pieces at the corners and sticks holding the pieces together. Somehow I understood that in order for love to flourish, it must be divided so that the parts can interact with each other. The more parts, the more interaction. Three parts are really minimum, I think. The question I asked myself here is "why isn't each individual completely self sufficient?" The obvious answer has to do with this separation and actual limitations in order for the love to flourish - we need each other-simple as that.

Well, thanks for your response. I am now heading off to read one of the 90k dissertations. I will get all the way through it - I promise.

In Christ,

Kathy

 

Submitted:  Mon, Apr 12, 2004 1:59 pm
Subject: The Love of God, Love in general, our non-Christiian brothers

BCC: DC, JG, Biyn, DM, AP, TW, SH


 
(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kathy,

This is a fascinating response. I'm glad your mind is working hard on these ideas. I think I agree with you on the learning- our capacity is infinite, especially if you consider it being held in the mind of God. (As an aside though I consider mental defect.) Here in the physical world, disease and disorders interfere with infinite learning. I grew up in a church that stressed having the right knowledge as key to being in right relationship with God. Obviously that can't be true because there are people with out the capacity to learn. That thought of course brings its own challenges.
 
Kathy, I am not sure I 'disagree' with what was 'stressed' by the church you grew up in. I have experienced in my life that most people simply worship God in the way they were 'taught'. This is NOT a bad thing. As a matter of a fact, for 'most' persons, I would say that this is a very good thing! God is no fool, and He knows what type of person and personality you will have. He was the person whom chose your parents for you, knowing full well how they would raise you 'religiously'.
 
As a matter of a fact, I usually teach that 'returning to' or 'sticking with' the church you were 'raised in' or 'taught as a child' is probably the second best choice when it comes to a person's religious choice.
 
What I have seen is that many people are not in the 'correct' or 'right' (and these are  VERY different) or even the 'best for them' religion almost always due to exactly the problem you mentioned, 'right knowledge'. If you were raised in a religion that worshiped ants, you would probably spend you adult life also worshiping ants, and associating with people whom also worshiped ants. As a matter of a fact, you would seriously doubt the authenticity, sincerity and possibly the sanity of 'others' whom worshiped some 'invisible and untouchable' God, or, far crazier, some old dead carpenter's son that was killed as a common criminal thousands of year ago! (That is truly a bizarre guy to worship as some sort of deity!)
 
And the reason, is this lack of 'right knowledge'. How can you judge another religion, or denomination unless you have carefully studied their beliefs, why they believe this, how they came to believe this, and use your own reason and logic to determine if any or all of what they believe is indeed 'right knowledge'. (Again, there is a big difference between 'CORRECT knowledge' and 'RIGHT knowledge'.)
 
The worshipers of the ants most likely have 'correct knowledge' regarding the ants, and this is exactly why they worship them. Ants are very organized, hard workers, absolutely devoted to the colony, and can accomplish great things as a group. They are extremely strong, resilient, and literally work themselves to death for the benefit of the 'colony'. They get along, do not have fights among themselves, their parents, their children. They do no have marital problems. They share all that they have with each other. they live in harmony, peace, and appear to have very 'stressless'  lives. This could be very appealing to a human group, and 'correctly' so, as there is much good about ants, that in context is 'superior' to the same aspects and respects in humans. For example, an ant can lift many times his own body weight and carry it for many times his body length. No man can even approach such a feat. You can pick up an ant and drop him from 100 time his body length onto hard ground, and he will get up and continue working. No man can do this.
 
So, it is NOT incorrect to worship the ants. In fact, I worship (give adoration to) the ants for I see the glory of God so easily reflected in many aspects of the ants. I do not however worship the ants 'exclusively', for I know where the ants get their power, organizational skills, and all that makes them as wondrous as they are. I adore all of God's great creation and I see great good in all of it. All of nature proclaims God's power, majesty, and glory and I adore and worship it. I see Him in all of it, and I give Him glory in all that He has done. So, it is perfectly 'correct' to worship something as 'reflective of God' as the ants.
 
BUT, to worship 'only' the ants is not 'right'. To not 'know' where the ants got their power and glory is 'WRONG knowledge' OR ' a lack of 'RIGHT knowledge'. If you asked these ant worshipers, they probably would NOT claim that the ants were the 'Creator' of all that exists. They probably do not have a concept of a 'Creator of all things', as they are worshiping ants, their 'world-view' is probably very limited in scope.
 
And, again, this 'scope' is typically the cause of a person or group having either the 'wrong-knowledge' or merely lacking the 'right-knowledge'. It is the duty and work of Christians to evangelize all of the world in every nation, so that eventually every person will have heard of this Jewish carpenter and what He said and did. With this 'right-knowledge' then all persons will be able to make a more 'informed' choice regarding the religion and denomination they then 'choose' to be. This is what Christ wants of us: to be a witness to all persons. And how shall we persuade the 'others' regarding our way? If we truly love one another as Jesus commanded us, they will surely exclaim, "See how these Christians love one another, and US also!" and in the power that is in Christ's love, they will be converted.
 
If they instead decide to 'stay with their current beliefs' after hearing and understanding our 'way', then we should allow them that freedom and love them all the more. It is very difficult to return to one's original faith after Jesus' calling. If they do so, allow them and do not think badly or negative of them. It is NOT our job to convert others, or FORCE them to be as we are. Our way is NOT acceptable to everyone. Thank GOD that He has at least provided for them, 'a way' for them that is acceptable to them.
 
Our job is NOT to make them as we are, BUT, to testify as to what we believe, and WHY we so strongly believe this. If they have heard us and clearly understood us, and then they choose a different way, let them alone and be happy for them. It is Jesus Himself that must transform someone's heart, for we cannot do that! Without Jesus' transformation which they would have to accept internally, there can be no conversion to 'our way'. Nor should there be, for they would only be 'play-acting Christian' and this would be spiritual hypocrisy, a thing Jesus hated far worse than any other thing!
 
So again, it is NOT wrong that others worship God in a way they choose, even if that way is not the same as 'our way' (which we firmly believe is not only the 'correct way' but also the 'right way'!) Others may well be 'correct' in their chosen faith and worship. Let us only love them and pray hard that they are 'sincere' in their chosen beliefs.
 
Even in Jesus' days they had 'divisions' and the disciples asked Jesus about 'them'. After hearing that the disciples could find no fault in what 'they' were teaching, Jesus told the disciples to leave them alone because not EVERYONE was willing to accept Him and His way. Be glad that God has provide them 'A Way'! Jesus said.
 
Now, as I am a visionary, prophet and Evangelist, I will do everything in my power to make sure that 'others' know what I believe and why I so firmly believe it, BUT, if they sincerely chose to believe a different way after I have explained myself clearly and all that He has done to and for me, I have no hard feeling toward them at all. I understand that not everyone believes as I do, and it will always be this way. I am very proud that they at least 'believe' in something! So many people today do not really believe in anything, or have a luke-warm belief in what they accept. I would rather that someone be on fire for their own chosen way to God, than to just be mediocre is some pre-determined belief set! (Lip-service once-a-week Christians are a far worse lot in God's eyes than those whom do not practice 'with the majority' but are still fervent in their chosen worship of God.)
 
Peniel says this: if you can stand and accept it, Love God with passion and power in the way He wants us to (the 'right' way). If that is unacceptable to you, then love God as fervently as you can in your 'own chosen way'. Don't just be luke-warm regarding Him, for He wants our love, hot and passionate. He would rather receive the passionate love from one of us in 'our own chosen way' that the luke-warm and mediocre attempts at loving Him from a thousand 'weekly attendees at services'.
 
Kathy, you also said that your church taught that this 'right knowledge' was the key to being in a 'right relationship' with God, and AGAIN, I agree with what they have said. You see, God's relationship with us is exactly what is at issue with those whom do NOT accept the 'right' way. If a person chooses to worship God in some way that is not the way God wants them to worship Him, (not the 'right' way for them) then God's relationship with that person is just exactly what will be effected.
 
God 'wants' to be our loving father, provider, protector, lover and friend. The 'best' way to have this 'right' relationship with Him is to do as He asks us. If we instead say, "No, it is unacceptable to me to do this Your way. I choose instead to do it my way!" then God will NOT have the same relationship to this person as He wants. But, He will still have the best relationship that the person 'allows' God to have, for God still loves this person the same, and still wants the best for him. This person is only 'limiting' what God is able and willing to do for Him with his choices, BUT, it is that person's choice, and since God respects this person's free-will to chose his beliefs, we too should respect that person's choice. Again, this is assuming that we have already done our Christian duty and both 'witnessed' to and 'testified' regarding our beliefs and reasons for our beliefs to this 'other' person.
 
'Nuff said.

In about the fourth paragraph you talk about God loving Himself through our loving each other. This is true and was revealed to me at a VERY young age, though it took a while to process into words. I had one of "those" kinds of dreams where I saw shapes - triangles made of round pieces at the corners and sticks holding the pieces together. Somehow I understood that in order for love to flourish, it must be divided so that the parts can interact with each other.The more parts, the more interaction. Three parts  are really minimum, I think.
 
Here is another aspect of human nature that is infinite! A person's capacity and ability to love is infinite. No matter how much you love, and how many people you love, your love and capacity and ability to love is never decreased. As a matter of a fact, the more you love, the more love you have to give to others and the stronger and more pure you love will be. When a parent has a child, they do not have to now divide their limited love between their spouse and their child, for love has no limits like this. There is as much love as we are willing to give and show. When a child comes along, we now have a new recipient for our love, and the love we already have for our spouse is not lessened due to this new recipient. As a matter of course, typically, our love for our spouse is actually increased! For in loving the new baby, our 'loving nature' is increased and purified and perfected and made more powerful, and consequently, our love for our spouse is typically increased, made more pure, and intensified.
 
Some persons achieve a holy state where they honestly and actually love 'everything and everyone' they encounter. They have the very love that God Himself has for all persons and things. They see the good in all things, and they love the goodness within all things. This state of all-encompassing love for everyone and everything is both very fulfilling and joyous, and also very wearing on one's life. The candle which burns the brightest lasts the shortest. To live a life where one is expending so much emotional energy in loving all that is presented to oneself, consumes one. I know, dearly...
 
Yet, it is a state that I highly recommend! To have all three persons of the God-head actually dwell within you, in full measure, is the source of the highest fulfillment and blessings here in this mortal life. It is not an easy thing to attain, yet, it is our 'highest state' achievable here in this mortal frame. To have to endure the often long and painful purgation, illumination and finally to come to union is, well, indescribable. However, the very light of Christ will then shine forth from your very being and all those that encounter you will typically be changed by this light for the better. What a wonderful and noble task and gift from God, to be as perfect a mirroring of Jesus as one can, a very 'Imitation of Christ', here in these modern times! This is the goal I usually recommend to those serious seekers of a deeper spiritual life, and I have assisted several along their paths in this direction.
 
Again, I digress.
 
 The question I asked myself here is "why isn't each individual completely self sufficient?" The obvious answer has to do with this separation and actual limitations in order for the love to flourish - we need each other-simple as that.

I agree. Without some 'other' to be the object and recipient of our love, we would only love ourselves. This 'love of oneself' is a wonderful thing, so long as it is ONLY the necessary step to then loving others more purely and intensely. Otherwise, this self-love will pervert us and make us vain and self-centered. One SHOULD love oneself fully and wholly, and one should recognize his own greatness and glory, AND, know clearly where this greatness and glory comes from and for what purpose it has been given to us! In this respect, love of oneself 'to be better able and willing to love others with greater intensity and purity' is a very noble aspiration.
 
If one were truly alone, and there were no God, self-love would be a disastrous and destructive thing, indeed!
 
Well, thanks for your response. I am now heading off to read one of the 90k dissertations. I will get all the way through it - I promise.

I hope you like it!

Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Mon, Apr 12, 2004 7:06 pm
Subject:  My church, and grace

 

Greetings,

Wow - I certainly didn't expect this much thought! Thanks - it is really beautiful and right on! I should explain myself a little more - sometimes I get too succinct. I have noticed that denominational names are not really a concern, so just let me say that the church I was raised in was "fundamentalist" and preached that there are 5 steps to achieving salvation, and that people claiming to be Christian but from another denomination were damned because we were "the one true church" I was fortunate in that the preacher we had actually talked about grace. Most of the other churches didn't. Because salvation was dependant on performing the 5 steps, one had to be knowledgeable in order to achieve it. I don't disagree with you regarding the necessity of knowledge - I believe there is a passage that God is lamenting that "my people perish from lack of knowledge"(I’m not a Biblical scholar, so may be misquoting) Anyway, it is clear in the physical world that lack of knowledge can be critical. i.e.: that multi-megawatt line that is buzzing like crazy right above you is a bad place to fly a kite - especially with metal wires attached! Certainly our actions have consequences and the more we can conform our beliefs and activities to reality - physical, emotional and/or spiritual- the better off we will be. I admit to being shy about "witnessing" to people, probably because of the anger I have seen generated by fundamentalist preachers. Normally, I am best at prodding my fellow Christians to think more, look at issues from several angles and generally sharpen themselves (Sunday school classes, etc. - one person told me that after a conversation with me her brain "hurt") I am much happier "witnessing" with my life, but realize that words are also needed in most cases. Also, I live in the "Bible Belt" so it's not like most folks haven't heard at least a little. The problem is that so much of what goes around is pretty judgmental. The denomination I now worship with is considerably more liberal theologically and socially than the church I grew up in. In defense my original church, I will say that we did learn a lot of scripture and we learned to sing a cappela. The group I am with now are a little deficient in both areas, but they are very involved in social issues. In investigating the church (before and after joining) I have found that I can wholeheartedly agree with the principles espoused. While I am on the subject of denominations, I will address one of the questions you pose in your book: (if I recall it) What does God think of Denominations - or something to that effect - God has people in all situations, all over the world. Each denomination has its good and not-so-good traditions and people are all at different stages of understanding of God. One denomination might be exactly what someone needs at one stage of development, and detrimental in another stage. My biggest problem with most all groups is the lack of intensity and passion of most of the members.(even the Pentecostals can be demonstrative out of tradition only) I am not a particularly demonstrative person, but as my husband has pointed out a nun and a holy roller can be equally passionate, but display their feelings quite differently. (my husband thinks I would just about qualify for being a hermit!)

Back to the issue of knowledge: My original church really didn't consider the salvation of persons who are severely retarded, or otherwise incapacitated mentally. That really should be taken into account when thinking about the "requirements" of salvation. If salvation is by grace (which I obviously believe) then the problem disappears. Salvation by grace, however doesn't grant us the license to be lazy, but should inspire us to do our best in every endeavor (If we are condemned by our words, I'm in serious trouble here) At any rate, God, as you say, is no fool, and as far as I can tell, totally trustworthy. It is a good thing that we are instructed not to judge (condemn) because most of the time we haven't a clue about what is really going on.

Good grief- am I getting wordy or what! I will study your comments more and may respond again to different passages in a future email. Thanks for your involvement and be sure to spend time with Gail!

in Christ

Kathy

 

Submitted:  Mon, Apr 12, 2004 7:16 pm
Subject:  Correct vs Right

 

Hello again!

I just reread the last email and wondered if I could think of "correct" as being a subset of "right" in the way that you are using the terms?

In Christ,

Kathy

 

 

Submitted:  Tue, Apr 13, 2004 9:21 am
Subject:  Correct and right explained

 

Kathy,
 
Actually, I should have clarified my terms (like I usually do.)
 
Correct and incorrect are terms that deal with physical reality only, not emotional, not spiritual. Correct and incorrect do NOT imply nor contain any 'moral' attachment.
 
Right and Wrong, however, ARE moral issues, spiritual issues, emotional issues.
 
Here are some true statements to help clarify the proper meanings.
 
1.) It is correct that 2 + 2 = 4
2.) It is right to love one's neighbor.
3.) It is incorrect to disbelieve in gravity, and subsequently jump off of your roof in the mistaken idea that you can therefore fly.
4.) It is wrong to harm an innocent child your are babysitting because you are angry at your boyfriend.
5.) It is correct that physical things exist in the physical universe.
6.) It is right that we love God.
7.) It is incorrect that water is a good source of protein for humans.
8.) It is wrong to offend God through sin.
9.) It is correct that airplanes, though very heavy, can fly through the air if properly designed.
10.) It is right to praise your children.
11.) It is incorrect to teach your children that the sun is really a big ball or hot cheese.
12.) It is wrong to teach your children to think less of certain people based on their skin color, race, creed or religion.
13.) It is correct to get 100% on your math test in school.
14.) It is right to know and follow Jesus' laws of love.
15.) It is incorrect to fail history in school.
16.) It is wrong to tell lies about your history teacher to make him look bad to others.

I think this will suffice. God is generally unconcerned about what is correct and incorrect, and these 'non-moral' issues do not typically effect our relationship with Him or others. They can, however, effect our bodies (like disaccepting the law of gravity.)
 
Right and wrong, being 'moral' issues, always have to deal with the relations between personalities, emotions, spirit, etc. God is primarily concerned with those things we do that are right and wrong as they also express our beliefs regarding morality and our relationship and beliefs about Him.

 
Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Tue, Apr 13, 2004 2:20 pm
Subject: 

 

My dear Kathy,

Wow - I certainly didn't expect this much thought! Thanks -

Well, remember it is my joy and fulfillment to teach others. If you open the door, I will sell these spiritual encyclopedias as long as you let me stay in your living room!

it is really beautiful and right on! I should explain myself a little more - sometimes I get too succinct. I have noticed that denominational names are not really a concern, so just let me say that the church I was raised in was "fundamentalist" and preached that there are 5 steps to achieving salvation, and that people claiming to be Christian but from another denomination were damned because we were "the one true church" I was fortunate in that the preacher we had actually talked about grace. Most of the other churches didn't. Because salvation was Dependant on performing the 5 steps, one had to be knowledgeable in order to achieve it. I don't disagree with you regarding the necessity of knowledge - I believe there is a passage that God is lamenting that "my people perish from lack of knowledge"( I'm not a Biblical scholar, so may be misquoting) Anyway, it is clear in the physical world that lack of knowledge can be critical. ie: that multi-megawatt line that is buzzing like crazy right above you is a bad place to fly a kite - especially with metal wires attached! Certainly our actions have consequences and the more we can conform our beliefs and activities to reality - physical, emotional and/or spiritual- the better off we will be. I admit to being shy about "witnessing" to people, probably because of the anger I have seen generated by fundamentalist preachers.Normally, I am best at prodding my fellow Christians to think more, look at issues from several angles and generally sharpen themselves(Sunday school classes, etc. - one person told me that after a conversation with me her brain "hurt")   I am much happier "witnessing" with my life, but realize that words are also needed in most cases. Also, I live in the "Bible Belt" so it's not like most folks haven't heard at least a little. The problem is that so much of what goes around is pretty judgmental. The denomination I now worship with is considerably more liberal theologically and socially than the church I grew up in. In defense my original church, I will say that we did learn a lot of scripture and we learned to sing a Capella. The group I am with now are a little deficient in both areas, but they are very involved in social issues. In investigating the church (before and after joining) I have found that I can wholeheartedly agree with the principles espoused. While I am on the subject of denominations, I will address one of the questions you pose in your book : (if I recall it) What does God think of Denominations - or something to that effect - God has people in all situations, all over the world. Each denomination has its good and not-so-good traditions and people are all at different stages of understanding of God. One denomination might be exactly what someone needs at one stage of development, and detrimental in another stage. My biggest problem with most all groups is the lack of intensity and passion of most of the members.(even the Pentecostals can be demonstrative out of tradition only) I am not a particularly demonstrative person, but as my husband has pointed out a nun and a holy roller can be equally passionate, but display their feelings quite differently. (my husband thinks I would just about qualify for being a hermit!)
Everything you have said, is said well. I can add little to such clarity.
I too far prefer holy 'zeal' and a passionate love of God, than all of the vain knowledge and mediocre acts of worship many perform!

Back to the issue of knowledge: My original church really didn't consider the salvation of persons who are severely retarded, or otherwise incapacitated mentally. That really should be taken into account when thinking about the "requirements" of salvation. If salvation is by grace (which I obviously believe) then the problem disappears. Salvation by grace, however doesn't grant us the license to be lazy, but should inspire us to do our best in every endeavor (If we are condemned by our words, I'm in serious trouble here) At any rate, God, as you say, is no fool, and as far as I can tell, totally trustworthy. It is a good thing that we are instructed not to judge (condemn) because most of the time we haven't a clue about what is really going on.
Again, you have said very well!
It is an interesting paradox, Salvation is by grace alone, but grace without being followed by 'good works' is dead! Indeed, it is only through the grace of God, and the merit of Jesus Christ, that we 'can be' saved. Yet, we must act and choose to accept this gift of grace. Once accepted, if we do not allow the 'grace' to transform our lives (and therefore be reflected in our good works) then, how then can we truthfully say that we have been 'born again'?

Good grief- am I getting wordy or what! I will study your comments more and may respond again to different passages in a future email. Thanks for your involvement and be sure to spend time with Gail!
GREAT! Maybe I am beginning to rub off on you! All that you have said is full of spirit and merit! You just alleviated me from having to say it all like I usually do! Praise be to Jesus Christ!
 

in Christ

Kathy

Peace be yours,

Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Tue, Apr 13, 2004 3:29 pm
Subject:  Salvation by grace

 

Grace and Peace to you Peniel,

Regarding the "paradox" of salvation by grace alone or salvation by works, I simply don't see a conflict. My husband gets annoyed with James talking about works vs. Paul's discussion of grace, but to me they are really two sides of the same coin. I think of the situation in terms of an ordinary relationship with a friend ( if there is such a thing as "ordinary" friendship) It takes both parties to desire the friendship, and most people avoid doing things they know would damage the friendship, but do we really think we have to conform to a list of things to do in order to maintain the goodwill of the other? I might indeed do the list of things, but it is out of love for the other that I do these things. Our actions come out of our being (and to be fair, our being can result from our actions) so really grace and works are intertwined. Does a cherry tree produce concrete block? We produce what is in our nature.

This does open a can of worms. I feel a discussion of our true nature coming on.
For now I will stop and think some more. I always hesitate to talk too much in most situations, because I can very easily dominate and I don't wish to do that. Thank you for continuing this conversation.

BTW- the email clarifying "correct vs. right" was helpful, as I can manage to misinterpret almost anything. I think I noticed that it was not BCC'd. It might be a good thing to include in the archives along with the previous email which was BCC'd (assuming you want to archive that discussion - your choice)

In Christ,

Kathy

 

 

Submitted:  Wed, Apr 14, 2004 1:54 pm
Subject: What is minimally needed to get to heaven

BCC: AP, Biyn, DM, JG, KC, RF, SH, TW, Verk

 

My dearest Kathy,
 
(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Grace and Peace to you Peniel,
Thank you for adding your personal blessing to my storehouse of blessings; I am indeed very blessed!

 

Regarding the "paradox" of salvation by grace alone or salvation by works, I simply don't see a conflict. My husband gets annoyed with James talking about works vs. Paul's discussion of grace, but to me they are really two sides of the same coin. I think of the situation in terms of an ordinary relationship with a friend ( if there is such a thing as "ordinary" friendship) It takes both parties to desire the friendship, and most people avoid doing things they know would damage the friendship, but do we really think we have to conform to a list of things to do in order to maintain the goodwill of the other? I might indeed do the list of things, but it is out of love for the other that I do these things. Our actions come out of our being (and to be fair, our being can result from our actions) so really grace and works are intertwined. Does a cherry tree produce concrete block? We produce what is in our nature.

This does open a can of worms. I feel a discussion of our true nature coming on.

Perhaps just a short dissertation, rather than a full-blown discussion. I would propose for you consideration this scenario:
 
An unbaptized and willingly sinful man is hit by a car and winds up in the hospital in a coma. After a few days, he comes out of the coma but is completely paralyzed, and has absolutely no control over any part of his physical body. He cannot through his will blink, or move his eyes to the side. YET, he is now fully awake and aware of what is going on around him. He is merely, 'Out of control.'
 
Being that his injuries were very serious, he is in intensive care. His wife, a devout Catholic, is here beside his bed. Present also in this room is a Catholic priest (his wife's normal church priest), a Baptist minister, a Methodist minister, a Jewish rabbi, a Zen 'master', a Buddhist priest, and an Islamic prophet. The doctor examines the EKG readout and says to his wife, "He is certainly both alive and now fully awake. He can obviously hear us, see us, and understand what we are saying, BUT, he cannot respond in any way of fashion physically."
 
His wife says, "Honey, you are dying. They cannot stop it. The injuries are too serious and beyond repair. You will certainly be dead soon. The doctors assure me that you have at least an hour to live in which you will be conscious and aware, but you will not live two hours. This is your last chance. Now, you and I both know about your life and how you have lived it. We both know that you were never baptized, and that you rejected any and all sorts and forms of 'religion' or 'spirituality'. I know that you also are fully aware of my personal beliefs, having been raised a Catholic and having always maintained and accepted and believed in my faith."
 
His wife continues, "I understand that you don't 'believe' in all this religious 'hooey' as you always put it, but please, for me, do this one last thing. Accept baptism, accept that all that I have taught you 'might just be true', and that if it is, you understand that you are headed for hell, not only due to your original sin, but also due to the terrible and cruel things you have done to so many in your life. Acknowledge this 'possibility', and accept that 'perhaps' you have offended God (if there is one.) Ask for His forgiveness, sincerely in your mind and heart, and accept in your heart this baptism that the Catholic priest is about to perform on your body, at my request, and with the possibility that you might 'choose', allow, or even want it'."
 
She has the Catholic priest perform the normal rights of baptism, with the exception that at the answers required, your wife answered for you, in hopes that you would agree with her proposed answers. The priest then also performed the 'last rites' ritual for the dying.
 
Being a very open-minded and meticulous person, you wife then also had similar 'ceremonies' and 'rituals' and prayers and supplications, etc. from all of the remaining 'religious' persons in the room, each according to their traditional beliefs. (You wife honestly believes in God and Jesus and Catholicism, but, in your case, she is going to cover every possible base, just in case God turns out to be Buddha, or Mohamed, or Ala, or the Cosmic and Universal Oneness and Cessation of all Evil and Wrong-Mindedness.)
 
After each ceremony has been done, and each 'religious' has done his particular 'deal', the man dies.
 
Now, notice that I did NOT tell you, in this story, what the dying man was thinking, believing, or 'saying to himself' in his own mind while any and all of these rituals and ceremonies were going on.
 
1.) Is this man 'surely' saved, and will certainly go to heaven to be eternally with God, regardless of what he may have thought or said in his own mind?
2.) Is this man 'surely' damned, regardless of what he might have been thinking, believing, accepting, and or saying in his own mind?
3.) Is this man 'possibly' now saved, determined at least in part (though not necessarily in whole) by what he was thinking, believing, accepting and saying in his mind?
 
And now I ask you, what is the BARE MINIMUM, absolutely least essential element or action, to be 'saved' and wind up for eternity in heaven with God, as opposed to being eternally separated from God?
 
Scenario 2:
What if some terrible and extremely sinful man, never having been baptized, non-believer in anything spiritual, having only done terrible and vile and heinous things towards others in his entire life... what if he sees a young child in the street, and the fast approaching truck, and in a moment of 'love of fellow man' he dives and pushes the child out of danger to safety, himself being instantly killed by the truck, with full awareness that he was certainly giving up his life for the child. Does this man, never baptized, having committed only terrible sins and never one redeeming good work (except his 'last' act), does God allow this evil man into heaven for eternity? Does not his long life and millions of evil sins not condemn him to hell, regardless of his LAST ACT?
 
Scenario 3:
What if some saintly man, baptized and lived a full and Christ-like life, converting thousands to Christ, builder of many churches, doer of amazing works or mercy and charity, devoted his entire life to assisting the sick and starving, now comes on his deathbed and while there on his deathbed, sins against the Spirit, the 'unforgivable' sin. Does this good man go to hell? Does his long life of millions of good deeds not get him into heaven, regardless of his LAST ACT?
 
Or, is this LAST ACT of possible enormous significance to a person's possibility of spending eternity 'with' or 'without' God?
 


For now I will stop and think some more. I always hesitate to talk too much in most situations, because I can very easily dominate and I don't wish to do that. Thank you for continuing this conversation.
BOY, I never hesitate to babble until either my tongue falls out or my fingers start to bleed from typing!

 


BTW- the email clarifying "correct vs. right" was helpful, as I can manage to misinterpret almost anything. I think I noticed that it was not BCC'd. It might be a good thing to include in the archives along with the previous email, which was BCC'd (assuming you want to archive that discussion - your choice)

It WAS CC'd, it just didn't say that in the header line!



In Christ,

Kathy


Kathy, I do so love your intriguing questions, but as I have offered others and am so strongly compelled to, please also consider allowing me to help you with any 'problems' or 'troubles' you may have. If instead, you life is like mine, perfect and joyous, then just continue and we will talk more... BUT, isn't there anything in your life that you would like to change, or have different? Do you have 'no problems' that you are willing to allow me to assist you with?
 
I know, you might already have come so close in loving God that, like He has for me, He has removed all traces of troubles and problems from you life, and you are in bliss each and every day, just as I am... but, perhaps not. I offer you my talents and gifts for your betterment, not just your entertainment, if you will only open up and take me up on the offer... Even if you do not have any 'problems' or 'negative issues', perhaps I might assist you in determining what your personal 'purpose' that God has destined you for; again, assuming that you are not already fully aware and accepting of this.
 

May God fill you full to overflowing with all good things,
 

Peniel G.G.G.

*** (Last Archived) ***

Submitted:  Wed, Apr 14, 2004 5:47 pm
Subject:  Re: What is minimally needed to get to heaven

 

Greetings to you,

 

Thanks for this great email. I will consider several things later, but wish to respond to your personal note to me first, (I am not a computer person, so haven't figured out how to cut an paste just that section in a reply email - sorry) You asked if I have personal issues you could help with. Maybe, I don't know. I actually do live in these questions I ask. As I mentioned before, I have done a lot of reading of Neal Walsh and other amazing works such as "The End of Time" by physicist Julian Barbour. His take on time has many spiritual implications, which I am working out slowly. Most of my own personal problems have been related to bizarre health issues of those around me. My husband, daughter and later my mother (now deceased, after caring for her in our home for three years) My family has had who-ever-heard-of-it disorders that have been hard to diagnose and/or treat - this has left me to bear a lot of responsibility to take care of them and of just ordinary day to day problems. We have taken in one young lady for short-term emergency care (several years ago) and she described our family as a "Bill Cosby" type family. Of course my marriage has had its ups and downs and we have worked through them - we have always been a team, although I admit we don't always communicate clearly. We are both artist/craftspersons and have "his and her" studios - we know we need our space - especially me.

You may have noticed that I still have not got around to answering question #3 regarding a "mission" in life. I have been thinking about it a lot and cannot come up with anything very specific. When I got down to the question regarding "purpose" I came up with  "to love and be loved." But I think that, while it is accurate, is very general. Most of what I can come up with for "mission" involves trying to see things very clearly, and explain them to others. I should tell you that I teach adult pottery (half time) and I thought that I was teaching about clay, and I am, but the main thing I am doing is helping various people self-actualize. It is a good feeling.

I hope this help you understand where I am coming from a little better. You may not realize it, but these email discussions are a lot more than entertainment for me. I am testing my ideas against your experience and knowledge, looking for flaws in my thinking (which could expose flaws in character) I "feel" as if I am on the verge of something, but cannot say what - maybe you can. I often have the feeling that there is something that I can almost here, but can't quite make out, which is frustrating at times.

I will consider the propositions in depth in a later communication, but I will say that I look to the thief on the cross next to Jesus, and know that he was in paradise with Jesus that very day. Also, C.S. Lewis idea of heaven or hell being in our perception - that is if you are in the presence of God, and your heart is turned to Him, you are in heaven. If you are in the presence of God and you are a sinner (an incomplete human?) you would be in hell. When I suggest that a sinner is an incomplete human, I am thinking of Jewish numerology, which considers the number 7 to be whole - holy- complete, and the number 6 to be very unholy because it is "short" of the requirement. The number 666 being very evil because it is 6 repeated 3 times (they did that for emphasis, I understand) - anyway I will go over the propositions in this email and a couple of others that I haven't completely worked out yet and get back to you.

As far as your helping me with personal issues, you are already, but if you have anything more to add, I am certainly open to that.

In Christ,

Kathy

Submitted:  Thu, Apr 15, 2004 4:04 pm
 Subject: Helping me with problems

BCC: AP, Biyn, DM, JG, KC, RF, SH, TW, Verk


Kathy,
 
(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Greetings to you,

And also with you.

 

Thanks for this great email. I will consider several things later, but wish to respond to your personal note to me first, (I am not a computer person, so haven't figured out how to cut and paste just that section in a reply email - sorry).

Highlight text you want to copy, then Control and 'C" (copy), then move cursor where you want it, then Control and 'V" (paste).

 

You asked if I have personal issues you could help with. Maybe, I don't know. I actually do live in these questions I ask. As I mentioned before, I have done a lot of reading of Neal Walsh and other amazing works such as "The End of Time" by physicist Julian Barbour. His take on time has many spiritual implications, which I am working out slowly. Most of my own personal problems have been related to bizarre health issues of those around me. My husband, daughter and later my mother (now deceased, after caring for her in our home for three years) My family has had who-ever-heard-of-it disorders that have been hard to diagnose and/or treat - this has left me to bear a lot of responsibility to take care of them and of just ordinary day to day problems.

I can help you with your ‘weird' medical issues by praying for your and your family. I was really looking for some ‘emotional' or ‘spiritual' pain that you were having to endure, or tolerate, or wanted changed; but, it looks like God has blessed you very highly and that short of wanting the ‘answers' to some intriguing spiritual and metaphysical paradoxes, your life is in very good shape and stance with God. This is WONDERFUL and I pray for your continued blessing. I myself have such a ‘blessed' life. After all that Jesus taught me, and after I put most of it to work and application in my life (many years ago), virtually all of life's little problems left me and now, strange as it may seem, the demons personally assigned to me whom used to torment me and cause me spiritual troubles, these same demons now protect me from evil, and don't allow others to even make me aware of evils going on around me! The principles and guidelines hat Jesus gave me have worked ‘far beyond' both my expectations, and often, beyond my belief!

 

I don't know of anyone else whom demons ‘protect' from evil befalling them and actively take a role in ensuring that their life is full of joy, peace and tranquility. Jesus has indeed given me an outstanding tool in the workshop on 'Pain and Suffering"!

 

We have taken in one young lady for short-term emergency care (several years ago) and she described our family as a "Bill Cosby" type family. Of course my marriage has had its ups and downs and we have worked through them - we have always been a team, although I admit we don't always communicate clearly. We are both artist/craftspersons and have "his and her" studios - we know we need our space - especially me.
Again, this is wonderful to hear. I am so pleased that you and yours have been apparently blessed in a variety of ways. 


You may have noticed that I still have not got around to answering question #3 regarding a "mission" in life. I have been thinking about it a lot and cannot come up with anything very specific. When I got down to the question regarding "purpose" I came up with  "to love and be loved." But I think that, while it is accurate, is very general. Most of what I can come up with for "mission" involves trying to see things very clearly, and explain them to others. I should tell you that I teach adult pottery (half time) and I thought that I was teaching about clay, and I am, but the main thing I am doing is helping various people self-actualize. It is a good feeling.
Excellent. And, after helping people to overcome their problems and difficulties in life, assisting my fellow travelers here to ‘find their destined path' is my second best service that I can offer. I have ‘helped' hundreds of persons with their problems, maybe as many as a thousand! But, only about 1 out of 10 ever allows me to assist them in finding their own personal destiny and ‘purpose' in this life. I have done this for about a hundred persons to date, and I have gotten quite good at it. (It has become very ‘simple' for me to guide a person to the ‘starting point' of his or her destined path, although the follower sometimes insists on making this journey both ‘hard' and ‘long'.) It has always been pointed out to me that it ‘could' be an easy and short path; alas, some people INSIST that this ‘must' be either a hard or long or both journey. I will take them as they come, and I guide each according to how they ‘allow' me to guide them. A few have allowed me to take them the short and easy (albeit perhaps peculiar) path, but most will not accept this way.

 

Regardless, almost all of them wound up on their own path and they then fully recognized that this was indeed their destined purpose and path. I have been given both great merit, grace and fulfillment in having played a role in bringing many ‘back to God' (in actuality, where they ‘should' have been all along, but somehow got sidetracked from!) Perhaps at some point, I may assist you in either discovering this purpose for your life, or further your current understanding of it.


I hope this help you understand where I am coming from a little better. You may not realize it, but these email discussions are a lot more than entertainment for me. I am testing my ideas against your experience and knowledge, looking for flaws in my thinking (which could expose flaws in character) I "feel" as if I am on the verge of something, but cannot say what - maybe you can. I often have the feeling that there is something that I can almost here, but can't quite make out, which is frustrating at times.

I am very pleased that these are not just entertaining, but also instructional and helpful. I sometimes feel that I am just spinning my wheels by discussion such ‘trivial' issues as the true nature of time and the universe. I know that there is a great deal of interest and fascination for these subjects, and between what I have been taught and what has been ‘given directly in my mind' many of these paradoxes and / or mysteries are much more clear and understood by me; and I admit that I enjoy teaching others what I have been taught that SO helped me in my clarity and understanding of ‘all things'; and also knowing that having a deeper understanding regarding the Truth about ‘anything' can deepen a person's love and admiration of how Great and powerful God really is… I so often feel that there are much bigger fish to fry, and that some of these persons in this discussion group (just like Dave) have either serious problems in life, or feel far away from God, and in these particular respects has my gifts and talents been so finely honed.

 

I literally ACHE for people to open up to me so that the wonderful nurturing and healing power of Jesus can be given to them, like is happening now for Dave ONLY. I feel like a man with a huge treasure, willing and wanting to give portions of it away, and around me lay thousands of starving people… WHY do they not ask of me what I both have so ample of and am so desirous to give to them?

 

Oh well, I shall (im)patiently continue to ‘wait on God' and pray that if some of you do have real problems or spiritual troubles, that God give you the courage to open up and reveal it (even if in private) so that what He has given me is not wasted in merely techno-babbling about how photons and quarks work, and why time is not reversible, and how many psychiatrists it takes to change a light bulb (only one, but it is very expensive, takes a long time, and the light bulb must really want to change in the first place!) ;-)


I will consider the propositions in depth in a later communication, but I will say that I look to the thief on the cross next to Jesus, and know that he was in paradise with Jesus that very day. Also, C.S. Lewis idea of heaven or hell being in our perception - that is if you are in the presence of God, and your heart is turned to Him, you are in heaven. If you are in the presence of God and you are a sinner (an incomplete human?) you would be in hell. When I suggest that a sinner is an incomplete human, I am thinking of Jewish numerology, which considers the number 7 to be whole - holy- complete, and the number 6 to be very unholy because it is "short" of the requirement. The number 666 being very evil because it is 6 repeated 3 times (they did that for emphasis, I understand) - anyway I will go over the propositions in this email and a couple of others that I haven't completely worked out yet and get back to you.

As far as your helping me with personal issues, you are already, but if you have anything more to add, I am certainly open to that.

In Christ,

Kathy

Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Wed, Apr 14, 2004 9:32 pm
Subject:  the matrix

 

Greetings and blessings,

I have just read the email re: the matrix and realize that it basically agrees with the physicist Julian Barbour. He says that he was troubled by the issue of "time" because it only travels one direction. He said that everything else in physics could go backwards and forwards. (Not being a physicist, I just accept that for now, as he is renowned) Dr. Barbour envisions a matrix trough, which our souls move in accordance with our choices. Neal Walsch indicates that we are here to demonstrate "Who we really are" which is to say demonstrate our choices and that time is like Dr. Barbour suggests, only he likens it to a CD where all choices are present, but we must choose the path.(Dr. Barbour’s work was published after your work, Peniel, and also after Mr. Walsch’s book) I have suspected for some time now (no puns intended) that when all is said and done, the physical universe is actually made up of love. If there is no time as we experience it, does God experience all "time" as space? And if so, can prayer be acted on retroactively? - That is, we perceive a prayer in a time/space continuum, but God knows what we ask before we ask and has answered before we even realize a prayer? Do we pray in order that our own understanding be made perfect - we pray because God loves God through us? Is the universe, as we know it like a hologram in that the whole is displayed in all of its parts-ie: the smallest particle is made up of pure love? Love solidified or love packets, if you will. We must experience time as a one-way event, as we must be limited in the physical world, in order to really function. If nothing was restricted, I don't think we could really exist. Thanks so much for your discussion of the physical universe - I had intended to write about this, but hadn't gotten around to it.  Now I have. These discussions are really great for me - its hard to find anyone in normal conversation who is the least bit interested in this sort of esoterica. But, as I suggest, it may not really be that esoteric. It may be another face of love and should therefore be treated with more respect than we usually can muster. (I am not pantheist, I don't "worship" trees, etc. but the realization that all the system must work together is important to our day-to-day functioning, even if it does eventually turn out to be "illusion") this kind of thought process is on the very edge of my capably to even begin to envision, so much of this might be murky. Thanks for any clarification.

As you say, God is very very big. Not one to fit well into a box.

In Christ,

Kathy

 

Submitted:  Wed, Apr 14, 2004 9:42 pm
Subject:  Scenario #3

 

Greetings

I realize I am taking up a lot of your time today, but must ask a clarifying question for the scenario in which a saintly man commits the "unforgivable sin" on his deathbed. with the question of where does this man spend eternity. How are you defining the "sin against the Holy Spirit?" I normally define this as becoming so hard hearted as to not be able to respond to love at all. If I use my definition, I doubt that the saintly man even could commit this sin at the very last minute.

Also, could eternity be a "slice" of the matrix in which a person remains? Having considered a number of NDE reports, this seems a possibility. There are many reports of Christ pulling people out of hell, which is presented pretty much as being an individual experience, as opposed to the medieval concept of layers of common experience in a location called Hell - Dante's inferno -

I will quit for now - respond as you have time, energy and thanks for your patience. I know I have written more today than probably at any time in my life!

In Christ

Kathy

 

Submitted:  Thu, Apr 15, 2004 9:55 am
Subject: The Unforgivable Sin

 

BCC: AP, Biyn, DM, JG, KC, RF, SH, TW, Verk


My dearest Kathy,
 
(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I realize I am taking up a lot of your time today, but must ask a clarifying question for the scenario in which a saintly man commits the "unforgivable sin" on his deathbed. with the question of where does this man spend eternity. How are you defining the "sin against the Holy Spirit?" I normally define this as becoming so hard hearted as to not be able to respond to love at all. If I use my definition, I doubt that the saintly man even could commit this sin at the very last minute.

OK, here is the passage:

Mark 3:22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, 'He is possessed by Beelzebub! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons." (28) So Jesus . . . spoke to them . . . (28) I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. (29) But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." (30) He said this because they were saying, 'He has an evil spirit."

And here is what the situation was:
The teachers of the Law came down from Jerusalem and publicly accused Jesus of being in league with Satan, explaining His exorcisms that way. Why did they accuse Him of that? After all, the Pharisees themselves cast out demons all the time, so Jesus' success at exorcism was not at issue.
 
However, when Jesus did conduct an exorcism, He never invoked God! That led the spectators to wonder where He got the authority to pull it off. Some people correctly deduced that Jesus possessed the personal authority to do it, and were amazed. The learned Pharisees who witnessed the exorcisms refused to come to that conclusion, because that would result in Jesus having the authority of God and they did not want to accept that. So they decided that Jesus must have mumbled the invocation. Since the only reason for mumbling would be to conceal an invocation of Satan, that is what they accused Him of in public.
 
Jesus' rebuttal went as follows: Satan can't be casting out Satan, because that is absurd; he would be defeating himself. It doesn't make any sense. Furthermore, Jesus couldn't rob Satan of his demons and his victories unless He had more power than Satan did. They didn't suppose that Satan would give up without a fight, did they?
 
If it is not by the power of Satan that Jesus casts out demons, then it must be by the power of the Holy Spirit, because that is the only other alternative. If Jesus does not invoke that power, the implication is that He already possesses it as a personal prerogative. If Jesus is casting out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit, but the Pharisees slander the Holy Spirit by trying to make people think the Holy Spirit is Satan, then they are clearly blaspheming against the Holy Spirit.
 
In support of this (which Aquinas proposed) is the fact that for all those whom 'know' about Jesus, and understand who He is, to refuse to accept Him as our 'Savior' is to refuse to accept His saving grace. ONLY His saving grace can save us from eternal damnation, and if we refuse Him, we deny the Holy Spirit within Him (whom PROVIDES saving grace). To 'blaspheme' is to publicly injure the reputation of, and this is a very serious crime. So, one way that a person could 'sin against the Holy Spirit' is to deny that Jesus is the Christ, and to claim that He is NOT the Son of God, and thus one denies that the Holy Spirit is both with and in Jesus.
 
This is exactly what the pharisees did, they said Jesus had power, but, it was Satan (not the Holy Spirit) that gave Jesus His power. This is the same as calling the Holy Spirit SATAN. This is blasphemy! The reason that this particular 'act' is unforgivable is that if one 'believes in his heart and professes publicly' that Jesus' power is from Satan (thus blaspheming the Holy Spirit that acts through Jesus), and since Jesus is the very person that they would have to receive the 'forgiveness' of this sin from, they are incapable of asking Jesus for forgiveness for this particular act, for the act in and of itself denies Jesus the power to forgive them.
 
If, at some later time this person was to change his mind, and then 'believe' that Jesus was indeed acting through (or filled with) the Holy Spirit of God, instead of the evil power of Satan, AND, if this repentant person also asked Jesus for forgiveness of this 'act' they formerly committed, He would SURELY forgive them! He will forgive ANYTHING that any person sincerely asks for forgiveness of Him for.
 
Again, so long as a person holds the belief that Jesus is not 'of God', but rather, 'of Satan', this so offends the Holy Spirit of God (of which Jesus is filled and is the power through which Jesus performs His miracles), then it is 'impossible' for them to ask Jesus for forgiveness, so long as they maintain this belief about Him. They could not, they WOULD not. They certainly would not ask a person they believed was in league with Satan to forgive their sin, and especially in this instance, if they honestly believe that Jesus is 'of Satan', then Jesus could NOT have the power to forgive them of their sins. Only God can forgive man his sins.
 
So, this 'act' of believing that Jesus is 'in league with Satan', forces one to not be able to ask Jesus for forgiveness. If this same person was to indeed 'ask Jesus for forgiveness' (of ANY sin) would be to acknowledge that Jesus 'could' forgive them this sin, and thus, He MUST be 'of God', not Satan.
 
It is a 'self-fulfilling' prophecy, for this belief sets up in one's heart and mind an inherent inability to have the sin removed.
 
The second 'way' of sinning against the Holy Spirit is very similar. It is a life-long denial of God, in the face of proper evidence, and an obstinate refusal to accept the truth regarding God, Jesus and salvation. (Perhaps a person hates God because his young daughter died of leukemia, and he now blames and hates God for this. He goes around trying to get believers to stop believing in an attempt to hurt God.) After a lifetime of hatred and resentment toward the good God, a person's heart will be hardened against God, making it virtually impossible for them to ever be 'willing' to ask forgiveness. As each sin against the Holy Spirit this man commits compounds, more grace is lost by this man. Without a good relationship with God, which this man does NOT have, no grace is merited and none is given to him. As further sin removes the remaining grace, eventually the man is left with only what absolute minimal grace God gives all men, and in this wretched condition, there is no evil this man will not stoop to, and no end to his hatred and anger at God. This long-standing hatred and anger at a good and loving God is sin against the Holy Spirit.
 
As I have explained before, when God gives you love to be expressed toward someone, and if you continually refuse to express that love, eventually the love you had will leave you, and leave you COLD toward what it once loved. When the love God gives us to RETURN TO HIM, in loving God and giving Him glory and adoration and respect and reverence; when this love is refused to be expressed (because the man is so angry at God), eventually this love is removed, and the person feels 'cold' toward God. THIS is the point at which he 'sins against the Holy Spirit', for this man now has NO LOVE for God, and no LOVE FOR GOD will ever be allowed to him.
 
BOTH of these cases of 'sinning against the Holy Spirit' would be EXTREMELY rare in normal human lives. I would suspect that because God is so loving, and fills us with so much grace, and is so persistent and forgiving to us, and so long-suffering, knowing our human condition, I doubt that one in a billion lives might ever get into such a situation as they 'could' sin against the Holy Spirit. BUT, since we know what it is and how it could be done, we could willingly choose to do it, for we have free will.
 
Also, this sin, if NOT done on one's deathbed, is extremely likely to be 'undone' soon after by the awesome power and grace of God, since He has such love for us.
 
The man in the deathbed I spoke of, now reduced to a completely paralyzed monster, unable to move or speak, with only his 'mind' in operation COULD decide, "God has done this to me! I hate Him! Jesus could NOT have been God's agent, He must have been in league with Satan. All of the things Jesus did were not of God, they were all done with Satan's power. I DO NOT accept Jesus as God, or God's son. He was an evil trickster and His miracles were Satanic in nature. I was stupid to have 'earlier' in my life 'accepting Jesus as my Saviour'. I deny that now, He is evil and all that I used to believe regarding Him was lies. The bible was probably really written by Satan to get us to accept and believe in this Satanic Jesus. It is impossible for Jesus to forgive sins, for He is in league only with Satan. All of my life I have 'doubted' all of this religious ;hooey', but I see now it was not just hooey, it was all evilly inspired. The whole Christian thing was a Satanic hoax, and look at the terrible state God has put me in here at deaths door! I hate God too, for He is obviously not a good God, or He would not have done such terrible things to me!"
 
Without moving a muscle, without uttering one word, if these thoughts and beliefs are truly felt and accepted sincerely, this man has surely sinned against the Holy Spirit in BOTH ways. And then he dies...
 
Now, returning to the questions previously posed. Just after these thought sincerely felt thought and believed that I listed above, no matter what sort of 'physical rituals' were being performed on this man, is it possible that he might still go to heaven (due to the rituals, even though he has committed the unforgivable sin just before dying)?


 
Also, could eternity be a "slice" of the matrix in which a person remains? Having considered a number of NDE reports, this seems a possibility. There are many reports of Christ pulling people out of hell, which is presented pretty much as being an individual experience, as opposed to the midieval concept of layers of common experience in a location called Hell - Dante's inferno -
When a person 'dies', he leaves this physical universe and is no longer 'subject' to the same 'time-limitations' we are. In the spirit world, where God and the angels are, time is very different. There is not really any past or present or future, it is all sort of amalgamated together. In 'eternal time frame', a thousand years is as a blink of an eye for us.
 
As I was attempting to point out in another thread, the 'eternal places' of heaven and hell will not have inhabitants until after the 'general judgment'. When God cast the fallen angels out of heaven, he did not send them to hell... they came HERE (to earth!) This is why at a later time, Satan in the guise of the serpent was in the garden to tempt Eve.
 
I suspect there will be much more discussion, but I wanted to clarify about the 'unforgivable' sin. 

I will quit for now - respond as you have time, energy and thanks for your patience. I know I have written more today than probably at any time in my life!

Peace. Praise be to Jesus Christ.

 


Peniel G.G.G. (pronounced "pen-yell" like an ink pen screaming)
Author: Oh My God! Are You Talking to Me?: My Conversations with Jesus
Book ISBN: 0958054371
"My Conversations With Jesus" = MCWJ
Book Web Site : http://www.mcwj.com/
Email: Peniel@Peniel.us
Phone: (405) 964-6436
Toll free: 1-866-MCWJ-777 (1-866-629-5777)

 

 

Submitted:  Thu, Apr 15, 2004 9:21 pm
Subject:  Subject: Alarm Bells

 

Dear Peniel,

This communication should probably be kept between you and me. You have now asked twice directly (albeit so very gently) to assist me in my spiritual path. Therefore, I think there is something that you are sensing that I am not aware of. I did realize after I sent the last response that I am being very careful about what goes over the Internet (we all hear the horror stories) so if I am a bit circumspect, please forgive. It is my intent to be transparent, and indeed several people have told me that this is so. Now- the past is the past and that is the best thing about it! (Like everyone else I have made some really bad choices and paid the consequences, but have always loved Jesus, even when I couldn't think clearly about moral issues.) But please understand when anyone asks me to open up to them; my guard automatically goes up. It is this guarding that is most likely the problem that should be discussed along with the purpose and direction in life. Is there a real reason to be on guard? - Do I not have the strength or faith to open up more? - is there really nothing there to discuss? - am I being less than true to my husband if I speak more emotionally? -I have no idea.

I am one of those people that is multi - talented, mostly in artistic endeavors, so it is often hard to see a clear direction anywhere. As often as not, I will create something and the object tells me where I am - as if I have to tell my conscious self what is really going on. Mostly my work indicates that I am waiting, trying to hear, trying to understand and just occasionally getting the message. I have often been called on to just provide "necessities” and so my life has jumped back and forth from art to science, and occasionally construction gopher and accountant. I was an RN for a number of years, but found it really doesn't suit my temperament. So I gave up a good paying job for the more uncertain life of a potter/artist. I've never missed a meal, but there have been a few significant bumps - mostly having to do with medical problems. When I chose to become a nurse, I did so because I knew that my husband, who was in the building trades at the time, was not really able to provide what we needed financially because his work was so closely tied to the economy and we were in a nasty recession. I figured it was either nursing or garbage collection, so chose the former! At the time there were many obstacles to going to school and I had given up when a voice asked me if that was what I really wanted to do (with definite reservation in the tone) When I  replied "yes" all the roads opened up and I graduated high in the class, etc. etc. I eventually got out when I came home crying all the time because the job is really middle management with all the responsibility and no real control over how the job is done, constant pressure to get more done with less and provide quality time with patients when there was not really time to give. If I was to return to nursing now, I could do a better job, but I have returned to art and intend to stay there in some form or fashion. I can't really say that I have a clear calling other than to respond to events as best I can. It is possible that nursing should never have shown up on my resume, but there it is.

Now, I realize this communication doesn't reveal any horrible crimes or other lurid stuff, so you are wondering why keep it private - I couldn't say - it just feels right. Perhaps there are some questions you have. I will be as forthright as I am able. I cannot discuss anyone else (family) as others are not involved in this conversation and have not given permission.

I will tell you that while I am basically happy, I cannot claim to live every day in complete bliss. I grieve over our country in many ways - I can't do a whole lot about most things - I probably feel more responsible than is really right, but it is perhaps a bit arrogant to assume that kind of responsibility.

Fondly, in Christ

Kathy

 

Submitted:  Fri, Apr 16, 2004 2:38 pm
Subject: Alarm Bells

BCC: NONE - PRIVATE

 

Kathy,
 
(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Peniel,
(Jesus immediately take over…)

 

Yatsar ken Mizraq,

 

I have so long desired to take you in my arms and hold you tight. I love you; my dear daughter, and I know that deep within you are hearing my sweet yet whispered call to you.

 

I am now going to take this opportunity to express to you my deep love for you, and hopefully allay some of your reservations toward Peniel, so that he might assist you as I have chosen for him to do.

 

First, prayer: Father, We humble ourselves before your majesty and give you glory. You know our true hearts, and what is best for each of us at all times. We ask your guidance as we begin to discuss and illuminate this precious child of yours, Yatsar ken Mizraq. May you blessings descend upon her and fill her with all manner of grace and understanding. Amen.

 

This communication should probably be kept between you and me.

Yes, Peniel will NOT copy your last email or this response.

 

You have now asked twice directly (albeit so very gently) to assist me in my spiritual path. Therefore, I think there is something that you are sensing that I am not aware of.

Indeed, you have sensed my sweet calling of your name: Yatsar. Have you not heard me in the deep recesses of your heart, tenderly and softly whispering your beautiful name?

 

You say that you think there is something Peniel senses that you are not yet aware of, and indeed, I have shown to Peniel much about you. He knows that I want more for you, and I have such wonderful things destined for you, my little flower. Indeed, there is a more noble purpose that you can serve for me. Have your dreams not shown you? Do you not think at times, 'Is this all that I am? Is this all that I am supposed to be doing?"

 

As you have already hinted at, I now tell you, there is indeed more! Let me take you hand and in the proper time, I will show you what it is that I want of you. Let me offer you the opportunity of self-discovery, so that as you come to an awareness of your ‘true purpose' here in this mortal life, you will be self-assured that it is of your own creation and making, fashioned by your own hands, molded like soft clay into a beautiful and useful object that can be of both service and pleasure to others.

 

I did realize after I sent the last response that I am being very careful about what goes over the Internet (we all hear the horror stories) so if I am a bit circumspect, please forgive.

My beautiful child, you are indeed wise to use such caution, for you know well the dangers that may lie in wait in this vast ocean of communication, but, I know that you will also recognize my hand when it spins the wheel, and there will come a time for you to indeed ‘open up' if you then feel trusting of my sure presence in what you hear communicated back to you. There is no need for your apologies; Peniel fully understands your reservations to ‘reveal' things that are ‘sensitive' or private in nature. There may come a time when ‘verbal' communications will be more comfortable to you than this wide-open email medium. For now, let us use what is at hand.

 

It is my intent to be transparent, and indeed several people have told me that this is so.

You are indeed ‘clear' and it is our desire to bring a great light within this clear vessel you have made of yourself, so that assisted by your clarity, this light can shine forth and be a guide and a beacon for others.

 

Now- the past is the past and that is the best thing about it!

My daughter, if you feel ‘badly', bitter, sorrowful or guilty, or ‘negative in any way' over any thing from your past, it might be wise, once you more fully ‘trust' Peniel, to discuss this ‘dark item from the past' in order that your mind and soul might be soothed and comforted. It is NOT NECESSARY to reveal any details, only the ‘essence' of the issue.

 

And, Peniel loves ‘hypothetical situations' in which a person describes a possible instance and what happened as a result of this situation, in order that you might come to a ‘resolution' for those things from your past that still ‘weigh upon' your heart. In time, if you allow and wish it, Peniel may assist you to come to a ‘better mind' about any of these past issues that cause you circumspection.

 

 (Like everyone else I have made some really bad choices and paid the consequences, but have always loved Jesus, even when I couldn't think clearly about moral issues.)

And being as I am HUMAN, as you are human, I know full well about your nature, your troubles, your problems, and how difficult it is to stay upon the right path. These past ‘bad choices' that you paid the consequences for, is indeed past. They are DEAD! Let the dead bury the dead, and let us instead concentrate on the future and the glorious and beautiful plans I have for you. IF something of the past haunts or gives you repose, then, as you feel the desire, Peniel can assist you to put your mind at ease regarding them, if you later find that necessary or helpful.

 

And I know, clearly and dearly, how much you love me. I know moreso how much you WANT to love me, more! And in this, Peniel may be of the greatest service to you. He has been made an expert on love, all aspects of love, interpersonal communications of love, etc. Let Peniel first and foremost assist you to become a better lover, as is your strong desire. I know how deep and powerful is the love you have within you, yet, there are times when you are unwilling or unable to express this powerful and pure love in an appropriate fashion. In this area, again, Peniel can be of service to you.

 

But please understand when anyone asks me to open up to them, my guard automatically goes up.

This is due to the hurt caused to your heart and soul (personality) in the past, and I clearly understand it. It was I who gave you these reservations to safeguard you from such harm in the future. Peniel understands such natural reservations about a person ‘opening up' as you do not know him, except from what you can determine via the book and his emails.

 

Let me explain what Peniel intended but did not make clear. Almost any problem or issue can be discussed ‘in general terms' without revealing any details personally. You may propose ‘hypothetical situations' in which what occurred in your past, or present, is not revealed in the details, but only in essence. For example, if in your heart you sometimes felt feelings of anger toward your husband because he didn't seem appreciative of your artistry (or not as much as he should have, let's say), and these feelings of anger, though mild, sometimes weigh on your conscious and perhaps cause you some slight guilt. In this situation, you could propose to Peniel a ‘similar situation' in this respect:

 

Suppose Leonardo Da Vinci showed his wife the Mona Lisa and asked her what she thought about it, to which Mrs. Da Vinci responded, 'Humm, she's sorta plain and doesn't look very happy to me."

 

Let's also suppose that this statement hurt Leonardo a little, and as he thought it over in his mind later, he got a little angry with his wife. He feels that her ‘estimation' of the painting was not in error, but she failed to see the astounding artistry that it took to make Mona look that way. Now, in this hypothetical situation, I have some questions for Peniel to answer.

 

Is Leonardo wrong in feeling hurt?

How should Leonardo take this comment from his wife?

Should he express his anger for her or suppress it?

Should he get some other people's opinions about the painting too?

The next time that a similar event occurs, how should Leonardo handle it, to avoid these hard feelings later?

Etc.

 

Do you see, none of the details or specifics about your own ‘private' situation is revealed, yet, the essence of your problem is recreated. The answers to Leonardo's dilemma will likely be the answers to your own issues, personally. In your proposed scenario, you can be as vague or as detailed as you see fit.

 

 It is this guarding that is most likely the problem that should be discussed along with the purpose and direction in life.

It is not now a major issue. If it begins to impede or impair your ability to learn or gain from Peniel, then we can further discuss it. There is nothing wrong with being cautious! However, your purpose and direction in life are of great importance to be discussed.

 

 Is there a real reason to be on guard?

There is a reason to be cautious, no more.

 

Do I not have the strength or faith to open up more?

If you don't I can certainly provide it!

 

Is there really nothing there to discuss?

You tell me, are you completely fulfilled in your life? If you realized that death was but a short time away, have you done and accomplished both all that you wanted to, AND, all that I had for you to do? Do you not still sometimes think, 'Is this all I am supposed to be and do?"

 

Am I being less than true to my husband if I speak more emotionally?

A very interesting proposition. I suspect this one needs to be looked at carefully and discussed, IF, if you are willing and consider it a possible issue in your life.

 

I have no idea.
Whom are you trying to convince? I know full well and have many ideas. I suspect that if you will carefully examine yourself regarding this statement, you will redecide that you do INDEED have ‘an idea', and moreso, many ideas! The problem is that you are just not at this time confident enough to reveal or express these ‘hidden' ideas you are harboring. Come on, open it up a little!

 

I am one of those people that is multi - talented, mostly in artistic endeavors, so it is often hard to see a clear direction anywhere.

I know of your blessings and talents, who, do you think instilled in your soul these precious gifts? And CLARITY and DIRECTION are two of the signposts marked along the path I wish for Peniel to guide you to.

 

 As often as not, I will create something and the object tells me where I am - as if I have to tell my conscious self what is really going on. Mostly my work indicates that I am waiting, trying to hear, trying to understand and just occasionally getting the message.

Now you are talking like a true ‘seeker'!

 

 I have often been called on to just provide "necessities" and so my life has jumped back and forth from art to science, and occasionally construction gopher and accountant. I was an RN for a number of years, but found it really doesn't suit my temperament. So I gave up a good paying job for the more uncertain life of a potter/artist. I've never missed a meal, but there have been a few significant bumps - mostly having to do with medical problems. When I chose to become a nurse, I did so because I knew that my husband, who was in the building trades at the time, was not really able to provide what we needed financially because his work was so closely tied to the economy and we were in a nasty recession. I figured it was either nursing or garbage collection, so chose the former! At the time there were many obstacles to going to school and I had given up when a voice asked me if that was what I really wanted to do (with definite reservation in the tone) When I replied "yes" all the roads opened up and I graduated high in the class, etc. I eventually got out when I came home crying all the time because the job is really middle management with all the responsibility and no real control over how the job is done, constant pressure to get more done with less and provide quality time with patients when there was not really time to give. If I was to return to nursing now, I could do a better job, but I have returned to art and intend to stay there in some form or fashion. I can't really say that I have a clear calling other than to respond to events as best I can. It is possible that nursing should never have shown up on my resume, but there it is.

It sounds as if you are torn by your past choices, and are unsure of your ‘proper' direction going forward. Again, do not be troubled over this. If you continue, and if you desire, we will assist you to come to an understanding of what I want for you, and what your ‘purpose' is.

Now, I realize this communication doesn't reveal any horrible crimes or other lurid stuff, so you are wondering why keep it private - I couldn't say - it just feels right.

And, as I have said, there is no reason to ‘detail' out these private issues, when only the essential question needs to be addressed. Peniel does NOT want to know any details, or lurid stuff, or any embarrassing or private things. His only interest is that he is given the chance to assist you to resolve any and all ‘problems, issues' etc that you might want solved. If you have a concern that you are not clear on God's destined purpose for your life, then that is one issue that you and Peniel should discuss. If you sometimes feel negatively toward your spouse, for whatever reason, and you want to change that, then there is another situation that you can discuss with Peniel (again, in ‘general terms' not requiring any details to be revealed.) If you are concerned that ‘others' might read this, call Peniel voice and he will call you back (so that the charges are on his phone, not yours) and discuss whatever private matters you feel you need to.

 

I have brought you in contact with Peniel, and have made Peniel receptive to and desirous to assist you in any way you wish! I have afforded for you a very rare opportunity, for Peniel's time is of great value (although he is not fully aware of this yet) and I am at this point willing to devote a portion of his time for your instruction, advancement, and benefit… because I love you, dearly, and I have important work for you.

 

 Perhaps there are some questions you have. I will be as forthright as I am able. I cannot discuss anyone else (family) as others are not involved in this conversation and have not given permission.
Perhaps after this introduction I am giving you to Peniel, my faithful teacher of teachers, you yourself will have some questions for him regarding some of the things that I have proposed to you in this private email. If not, next email round Peniel will surely have some questions for you.

 

I will tell you that while I am basicly happy, I cannot claim to live every day in complete bliss.

Wonderful, then there is room for advancement

 

 I grieve over our country in many ways - I can't do a whole lot about most things - I probably feel more responsible than is really right, but it is perhaps a bit arrogant to assume that kind of responsibility.

Each and EVERY one an excellent discussion point for you and Peniel, as you progress.

 

Peniel personally feels responsible for EVERYTHING (and I mean everything!) He feels personally responsible for the Viet Nam War, my crucifixion, the sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham, the destruction of the rain forests, and especially the fact that YOU, my beloved Yatsar ken Mizraq, are not all that YOU could or should be at this point in your life!


Fondly, in Christ
Kathy

 

Through Him, With Him, In Him; in the Unity of the Triune Godhead; with deep love,

Jesus

 

(and Peniel G.G.G.)

 

Submitted:  Fri, Apr 16, 2004 6:54 pm
Subject:  Opening up

 

Dear Peniel,

How beautiful a response, and, yes, I know that there is more purpose to my life than has yet been expressed. And yes, I am aware of the whispers, but they are frustratingly just beyond my capacity to comprehend.

I think there is a problem with this email, however, and I would like for you to please resend it to me. There are a lot of blank spaces in the second half of the communication that indicate a response from you, but missing information.

I had thought the events of the past were dead and buried as you acknowledge, but I realized last night that my cautious reserved responses are directly a result of concern for vulnerability and what I need to protect. Specific sins- generally looking for love in all the wrong places, are not really causing guilt, I don't think, but I don't know. It may come out later. What I did realize, though, is that I have been on the receiving end of many invasions of space - being of the female persuasion, I have been patted, hugged, kissed, attempted rape, etc, etc. I really had not thought about that at all or that together until considering why I might be so reticent to speak. That, and I have a real concern for boundaries and allegiances. My thinking and feeling can get very fuzzy at times, and I don't want to have any impropriety in beginning a deep search. I agree that the most important focus is where to go from here.

I will respond more after the resend. Thank you for your help and prayers. This could only work through email at this time, as I really can't talk directly to you at this point.


As always, In Christ

Kathy  (Is there a translation for the descriptive name?)

 

Submitted: 
Subject: 

 

Subject: Re: Alarm Bells

BCC: NONE - PRIVATE

 

Yatsar,
 
(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I am so pleased with the 3 emails I got from you over the weekend. I will respond to each separately.


How beautiful a response, and, yes, I know that there is more purpose to my life than has yet been expressed. And yes, I am aware of the whispers, but they are frustratingly just beyond my capacity to comprehend.
Indeed, Jesus' words are always both impacting and almost poetic. I understand what you mean about the 'whispers' and being 'just beyond  your reach'. Do not worry, there are other ways to assist you in discovering your 'purpose' and any messages God is attempting to send to you. (Later.)


I think there is a problem with this email, however, and I would like for you to please resend it to me. There are a lot of blank spaces in the second half of the communication that indicate a response from you, but missing information.
I resent and you got.


I had thought the events of the past were dead and buried as you acknowledge, but I realized last night that my cautious reserved responses are directly a result of concern for vulnerability and what I need to protect. Specific sins- generally looking for love in all the wrong places, are not really causing guilt, I don't think, but I don't know. It may come out later. What I did realize, though, is that I have been on the receiving end of many invasions of space - being of the female persuasion, I have been patted, hugged, kissed, attempted rape, etc, etc. I really had not thought about that at all or that together until considering why I might be so reticent to speak. That, and I have a real concern for boundaries and allegiances. My thinking and feeling can get very fuzzy at times, and I don't want to have any impropriety in beginning a deep search.I agree that the most important focus is where to go from here.
As Jesus explained, we only need to deal with /generalities and motives', never specifics. He gave a good example of how to put these issues, also.


I will respond more after the resend. Thank you for your help and prayers. This could only work through email at this time, as I really can't talk directly to you at this point.
I am looking forward to more.

Peace,


Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Sat, Apr 17, 2004 11:19 am
Subject:  speechless, but still talking

 

My friend, Peniel,

How gracious and precious are these times and communications. Thank you for maintaining privacy. I am compelled to take advantage of your offer of guidance so that I may see clearly and choose wisely how to walk for the few years I will remain mortal. Jesus has said that time is very precious, (especially yours) and indeed I realize that NOW is all we really have, so best to use it well. I feel that living in LOVE is like the air we breath. We walk through the air, it surrounds us, and we take it into our bodies and breath out. If love is not circulated, it dies. Now, the message I received prioritized learning more of love and the ways and means of love.  Again the message came across to "open up" - the affectionate "little flower" indicates that I am being commanded/challenged to bloom. Really, I think that I AM opening up, but obviously not. I have often enough helped others to get off "dead center" with various efforts, but am having trouble doing that myself. So I am both asking for and accepting your gifts in this matter. My soul (Jesus??) has said (several months ago) that it is time to be the poet. By this I think I am to go beyond concentrating on the technical aspects of life and allow myself to express the passions that exist. The difficulty as I see it is twofold: Direction of expression and fear of change. I do trust Jesus, though I don't always hear so well - If I were to die now, I would not have completed what I came here to do. (Which is WHAT??)

Regarding issues of emotional loyalty to my mate, I can discuss my own feelings, but not his, because that would be presumptuous.(sometime I may go into the details of our meeting - God had a strong hand in it and it is somewhat humorous)_ In the past my experience says that if I explore my ideas freely with a male someone, chances are good that that someone will feel an inappropriate affection toward me,(and potentially the reverse) and of course I don't want anything like that to develop for reasons of love of Christ and because I feel that in marriage, the main goal is to help each other become all they can become, which at the very basis involves trust. My husband has done a lot - in fact our marriage was truly made in heaven, whether or not we always feel like that is the case. I suppose in this situation, being as I am an assignment to you, this will not become a problem. As you have said, Jesus knows what He is doing. Lots of experience on the job, so to speak!

I will make every conscious effort to utilize your time well. Even though I love the enigmatic question and answers, as they really are pertinent to some of my thinking, I will focus on 1) learning to express love more appropriately, 2) my own direction- what Jesus has in mind. But I have to tell you that truly when you are asking me to "come on, open up" I look inside and find a blur of feelings not well articulated. Sometimes I can be as dense as neutron star! I know there is light inside, but it is diffuse and weakened - it could be a laser, I think.

There are so many issues brought out by the last communication, and some are specifically assigned to "later" discussion, so I will not address all points at this time. I will, however, attempt to return communications ASAP.

My gut is twisting and heart pounding, so I know this discussion and where ever it leads is vitally important to me, and I believe, also to you.

There is much work to do, so I await your response- I am working a long day today, so will check tonight.

Thank you for your faithfulness in Jesus

How do I sign my name?? Kathy (Greek: pure - Yatsar meaning???) or maybe YkMK or maybe since I don't really know who I am (other than "Precious and Beautiful in the sight of the Lord) I will end with "y"

 

Submitted:  Sat, Apr 17, 2004 8:05 pm
Subject:  funny!

 

Hi!

So, OK, I googled "Yatsar" and found it means "maker" or "potter" and Mizraq comes in with "bowls/basins" It is just too funny - I love it! But I am more.

Y

 

Submitted:  Mon, Apr 19, 2004 3:26 pm
Subject:  Yatsar

 

Yatsar,
 
OK, but I don't get it. What does that have to do with you? I thought you said you were a painter, or something like that? Or have I gotten you confused with someone else (it is sometimes hard to keep all these simultaneous discussions separate in my mind.)
 
So is it "maker of bowls" or "potter who makes basins"? Or what. What is a 'basin'?
 
I must admit, I really don’t know very much about bowls and pots and such, it ain't my area...

 
Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Mon, Apr 19, 2004 4:26 pm
Subject:  Yatsar

 

My techno friend Peniel,

The name is delightful, because, indeed I am a potter and pottery instructor. I tried to upload a photo, but the Internet isn't cooperating today - maybe another time. I recognize Jesus' voice, but the name is additional confirmation. I am comfortable with this now. The name Yatsar according to Strong’s #03335 has the meaning of "maker" among other things and is often translated "potter" It's root word can also be translated as "in distress - pain" It is a verb. The next word "ken" is an adverb that is translated "so as" or "Therefore”. Mizraq -Strong’s #4219 or 02236 refers to a chalice to hold wine or the precious metal ceremonial temple basin from which (blood?) is sprinkled on the people as a blessing or consecration - can't really remember this. A basin is a receptacle for holding something and also for distributing something. I haven't worked out a complete or accurate translation yet, but it is clear that the meanings are layered and multiple. There could be no more accurate description of who I am than this. Surprise? If you are interested, I will write a short discourse on clay and the symbolism of such things as "Thou art the potter, I am the clay" It is very rich - full of meaning.

Love from the mud pits,

Yatsar

Submitted:  Mon, Apr 19, 2004 5:05 pm
Subject:  Funny

 

Mrs. Mud, (BIG GRIN!)
 
I see! (Said the blind man to his deaf daughter, whom could not hear, for she had no ears...) ;-)
 
I didn't get it, but it looks like you 'really' got it.
 
I know this, Peniel, and / or the other root word Peneul, together are an absolutely perfect and clear description of me, as they clearly identify the moment and incident which made me 'me'. It would have not made sense before the incident, but afterwards, no other 'definition' would suffice, save this one word, Peniel.
 
I suppose that as you dig deeper, there are (like with mine) many levels and 'possible combinations' of meanings to your 'real name'.
 
I had the impression that the 'middle word' of yours somehow meant 'perfect', or 'sound' or 'of absolutely pure integrity' or something to that effect. Perhaps my conception of what I was 'given' is skewed, it often has been.
 
I have always been very lousy at any foreign languages, and Hebrew, Yiddish and Greek are all certainly 'Greek' to me. Heck, it took me 3 years before I was able to figure out what "Peniel" meant, and then it was a 'God-handed' series of coincidences.
 
I was talking to some lady whom was both well versed in scripture and had been to Israel many times. She asked my name, and I told her my legal name. She then asked for my 'other' name (she meant my Christian name taken at confirmation, but at the time I did not understand what she was saying.) I told her that God told me my real name was Pen-yell (I had no idea how it was spelled.)
 
She said, "Oh, is it spelled the same way as the mountain in Israel named Pen-yell?"
 
I said, "What Mountain?" She then recounted to me the story of Jacob, and how he wrestled with an angel, and how the angel changed his name from Jacob to Israel, and then how Jacob named that mountain "Peniel" which in Hebrew means, "I have seen God face to face, and I have lived to tell of the experience."
 
Well, I went all white and then flushed. I almost fainted. She asked if I was all right, and she got me a drink of water. When she explained that the 'Hebrew' definition of that name means, it so struck me as exactly appropriate as my 'true name' that I began crying. I cried for several minutes, in sheer joy, now not only knowing WHO I AM, but being certain that I had not just deceived or misled myself into this. It was quite an awakening and validation of all that He had previously taught me. I then, BELIEVED, whole-heartedly and never doubted Him again.
 
 
Praise be to Jesus Christ, Peace to you...

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted:  Sun, Apr 18, 2004 8:03 am
Subject:  returning home

 

Dear Peniel,
(Jesus immediately take over)
 
Yatsar ken Mizraq,
 
I have so long desired to take you in my arms and hold you tight. I love you; my dear daughter, and I know that deep within you are hearing my sweet yet whispered call to you.

 

 It has been too long, and there is nothing I would like better than to be held tightly by you - especially dancing among the stars. You know this –

 

I write for Peniel's benefit. I am now going to take this opportunity to express to you my deep love for you, and hopefully allay some of your reservations toward Peniel, so that he might assist you as I have chosen
for him to do.

I accept with gratitude
 
First, prayer: Father, We humble ourselves before your majesty and give you glory. You know our true hearts, and what is best for each of us at all times. We ask your guidance as we begin to discuss and illuminate this precious child of yours, Yatsar ken Mizraq. May you blessings descend upon her and fill her with all manner of grace and understanding. Amen. And Amen
 
This communication should probably be kept between you and me. Yes, Peniel will NOT copy your last email or this response. You have now asked twice directly (albeit so very gently) to assist me in my spiritual path. Therefore, I think there is something that you are sensing that I am not aware of. Indeed, you have sensed my sweet calling of your name: Yatsar. Have you not heard me in the deep recesses of your heart, tenderly and softly whispering your beautiful name?

Yes, I hear - but just barely - open my ears.
 
You say that you think there is something Peniel senses that you are not yet aware of, and indeed, I have shown to Peniel much about you. He knows that I want more for you, and I have such wonderful things destined for you, my little flower. Indeed, there is a more noble purpose that you can serve for me. Have your dreams not shown you? Do you not think at times, 'Is this all that I am? Is this all that I am supposed to be doing?" As you have already hinted at, I now tell you, there is indeed more! Let me take you hand and in the proper
time, I will show you what it is that I want of you. Let me offer you the opportunity of self-discovery, so that as you come to an awareness of your ‘true purpose' here in this mortal
life, you will be self-assured that it is of your own creation and making, fashioned by your own hands, molded like soft clay into a beautiful and useful object that can be of both service and pleasure to others.

I am here.
 
You are indeed ‘clear' and it is our desire to bring a great light within this clear vessel you have made of yourself, so that assisted by your clarity, this light can shine forth and be a
guide and a beacon for others. Now- the past is the past and that is the best thing about it! My daughter, if you feel ‘badly', bitter, sorrowful or guilty, or ‘negative in any way' over any thing from your past, it might be wise, once you more fully ‘trust' Peniel, to discuss this ‘dark item from the past' in order that your mind and soul might be soothed and comforted. It is NOT NECESSARY to reveal any details, only the ‘essence' of the issue.

OK - I understand.
 
And being as I am HUMAN, as you are human, I know full well about your nature, your troubles, your problems, and how difficult it is to stay upon the right path. These past ‘bad choices' that you paid the consequences for, is indeed past. They are DEAD! Let the dead bury the dead, and let us instead concentrate on the future and the glorious and beautiful plans I have for you. IF something of the past haunts or gives you repose, then, as you feel the desire, Peniel can assist you to put your mind at ease regarding them, if you later find that necessary or helpful.

I am accepting your forgiveness and how could I not forgive myself if You have forgiven me?
 

And I know, clearly and dearly, how much you love me. I know moreso how much you WANT to love me, more! And in this, Peniel may be of the greatest service to you. He has been made an expert on love, all aspects of love, interpersonal communications of love, etc. Let Peniel first and foremost assist you to become a better lover, as is your strong desire. I know how deep and powerful is the love you have within you, yet, there are times when you are unwilling or unable to express this powerful and pure love in an appropriate fashion. In this area, again, Peniel can be of service to you.

I am here.
 
But please understand when anyone asks me to open up to them, my guard automatically goes up. This is due to the hurt caused to your heart and soul (personality) in the past, and I clearly understand it. It was I who gave you these reservations to safeguard you from such harm in the future. Peniel understands such natural reservations about a person ‘opening up' as you do not know him, except from what you can determine via it. There is nothing wrong with being cautious! However, your purpose and direction in life are of great importance to be discussed.

I am ready to focus on direction and clarity, and need and appreciate the counceling.
 
 Is there really nothing there to discuss? You tell me, are you completely fulfilled in your life? If you realized that death was but a short time away, have you done and accomplished both all that you wanted to, AND, all that I had for you to do? Do you not still sometimes think, 'Is this all I am supposed to be and do?"

No, no and YES
 
Am I being less than true to my husband if I speak more emotionally? A very interesting proposition. I suspect this one needs to be looked at carefully and discussed, IF, if you
are willing and consider it a possible issue in your life. I have no idea. Whom are you trying to convince? I know full well and have many ideas. I suspect that if you will carefully
examine yourself regarding this statement, you will redecide that you do INDEED have ‘an idea', and moreso, many ideas! The problem is that you are just not at this time confident enough to reveal or express these ‘hidden' ideas you are harboring. Come on, open it up a little!

Nothing like being pinned to the wall to examine statements! I considered this issue in another email sent yesterday - (just figured out the instructions on cut and paste) I will consider it further if Peniel finds it to be an issue.
 
I am one of those people that is multi - talented, mostly in artistic endeavors, so it is often hard to see a clear direction anywhere. I know of your blessings and talents, who, do you think instilled in your soul these precious gifts? And CLARITY and DIRECTION are two of the signposts marked along the path I wish for Peniel to guide you to.

Thank you. I wish to proceed.
 
 As often as not, I will create something and the object tells me where I am - as if I have to tell my conscious self what is really going on. Mostly my work indicates that I am
waiting, trying to hear, trying to understand and just occasionally getting the message. Now you are talking like a true ‘seeker'! I have brought you in contact with Peniel, and have made Peniel receptive to and desirous to assist you in any way you wish! I have afforded for you a very rare opportunity, for Peniel's time is of great value (although he is not fully aware of this yet) and I am at this point willing to devote a portion of his time for your instruction, advancement, and benefit? because I love you, dearly, and I have important work for you.

Again, thank you for your gracious mercy, and most tender love.
 
 Perhaps there are some questions you have. I will be as forthright as I am able. I cannot discuss anyone else (family) as others are not involved in this conversation and have not given permission. Perhaps after this introduction I am giving you to Peniel, my faithful teacher of teachers, you yourself will have some questions for him regarding some of the things that I have proposed to you in this private email. If not, next email round Peniel will surely have some questions for you.

I anticipate this conversation greatly.
 
I will tell you that while I am basically happy, I cannot claim to live every day in complete bliss. Wonderful, then there is room for advancement

Yep
 
 I grieve over our country in many ways - I can't do a whole lot about most things - I probably feel more responsible than is really right, but it is perhaps a bit arrogant to assume
that kind of responsibility. Each and EVERY one an excellent discussion point for you and Peniel, as you progress. Peniel personally feels responsible for EVERYTHING (and I mean everything!) He feels personally responsible for the Viet Nam War, my crucifixion, the sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham, the destruction of the rain forests, and especially the fact that YOU, my beloved Yatsar ken Mizraq, are not all that YOU could or should be at this point in your life!

It saddens me that I have become so sidetracked from purpose. But, I am here and willing to understand now, and act accordingly when the time is right.

Fondly, in Christ
Kathy
 
Through Him, With Him, In Him; in the Unity of the Triune Godhead; with deep
love,
Jesus

I have not even begun to comprehend this, but accept in gratitude - YkM
 
(and Peniel G.G.G.)
Thanks

 

Submitted:  Sun, Apr 18, 2004 3:26 pm
Subject:  Allowing Jesus’ Words to be known

 

Hello again,

I will stop flooding your email after this one- but I had to let you know that I did discuss with my husband the fact of my entering into counseling with you (if you still want to do that) He is happy about it, so that clears my mind about freer discussion.

The communication from Jesus is so beautiful; I just keep rereading it. I am anxiously awaiting your thoughts. I know this is an important step and I do want clarity. At some time in the future, when I have digested all that is to come, we might find a way to put Jesus words on the web site. I would not withhold such preciousness. I found Dave's openness regarding his marriage relationship and your teaching to be very worthwhile reading, and I'm sure others would want to see Jesus words to me. We can figure out what to delete.

I don't know why I get so tight, but after rereading all you have to say on love and relationships, there is obviously no problem with more open communication between us in order to work on the problem of direction and clarity.

God's richest blessings on you,

with love, Y

 

 

Submitted:  Mon, Apr 19, 2004 2:46 pm
Subject: Communications

BCC: NONE: PRIVATE

 

(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello again,
My dear Yatsar,


I will stop flooding your email after this one- but I had to let you know that I did discuss with my husband the fact of my entering into counseling with you (if you still want to do that) He is happy about it, so that clears my mind about freer discussion.

Wonderful, I would strongly suggest that in the beginning, you show him all of the emails we do (so that he will know what is being said and taught) and also to alleviate any ‘doubts or fears' he might have regarding this counseling, or the relationship between you and I. I am certain that if you let him read my last one, where I discuss the ‘appropriateness' of certain expressions of love (like to my wife as opposed to my daughter) then he will more clearly ‘see' where I am coming from.

 

Of course, you and he must both be aware of and acknowledge the fact that I might be some ‘stalker' only interested in gaining your confidences and then having intent to do you some emotional or physical harm… this is the Internet, after all! So, soas to alleviate any fears you might have regarding this possibility, never reveal any personal details like your address or phone number, etc. Certainly don't tell me your bank account numbers.

 

This ‘form' of communicating is indeed ‘dangerous' and therefore it is always wise to keep and ‘identifying' information from being sent. Also, since you know me, my name, my address, and my ‘personal information' (which is all both in the back of the book and on the web site) you could always easily turn me in to the proper authorities if I ever did something inappropriate. I don't think you will have too much fear regarding this, few stalkers publish books with their address and phone number in it.

 

The communication from Jesus is so beautiful, I just keep rereading it. I am anxiously awaiting your thoughts. I know this is an important step and I do want clarity. At some time in the future, when I have digested all that is to come, we might find a way to put Jesus words on the web site. I would not withhold such preciousness. I found Dave's openness regarding his marriage relationship and your teaching to be very worthwhile reading, and I'm sure others would want to see Jesus words to me. We can figure out what to delete.
I myself never get tired of His inspiring and deep words. I took a copy of OMG with me this weekend to a baseball practice, and read what I have so many times read before, still magical, still inspiring, still beautiful.

 

Dave is going to let me ‘reword' the private conversations so that it appears as just Jesus giving me (Peniel) a dissertation on how one person should love their spouse. I will probably do the same thing with yours, change it into a discussion between Jesus and I on the general principles involved.


I don't know why I get so tight, but after rereading all you have to say on love and relationships, there is obviously no problem with more open communication between us in order to work on the problem of direction and clarity.
Trust me. Slow is the right way to start. Let us proceed at the pace you feel comfortable with, and we will soon address all of the things you desire.

 

First, who are you and why are you here?

Second, how can you love your husband, family, and others better?

Later, everything else.


God's richest blessings on you,
And on you in return.


With love, Y

 

Praise be to Jesus Christ, Peace to you Yatsar,

 

Peniel G.G.G.

 

 

Submitted:  Mon, Apr 19, 2004 7:31 pm
Subject:  various

 

Dear Peniel,

I just spent the last hour replying to your first questions regarding Who am I, etc. and managed to be very long winded and the internet said I had timed out and the email was invalid. Of course, it didn't copy. I will rethink and redo, but do you have solution for this problem? Tried again to attach a photo - This could make me develop a whole new vocabulary!

Now - to the following paragraphs
:
My dear Yatsar,

I will stop flooding your email after this one- but I had to let you know that I did discuss with my husband the fact of my entering into counseling with you (if you still want to do that) He is happy about it, so that clears my mind about freer discussion.
Wonderful, I would strongly suggest that in the beginning, you show him all of the emails we do (so that he will know what is being said and taught) and also to alleviate any ‘doubts or fears' he might have regarding this counseling, or the relationship between you and I. I am certain that if you let him read my last one, where I discuss the ‘appropriateness' of certain expressions of love (like to my wife as opposed to my daughter) then he will more clearly ‘see' where I am coming from.

I asked him if he wanted to read these emails and he aske me if it were a requirement from you. He just said that he trusted me and don't worry about it.
Also, I did not receive the email you are referring to, but I do understand the different types of love. My issue was just musing about fears of my own emotional attachment with anyone I would speak my true self with. Let me put your concern about my concern to rest. After rereading your general thoughts and understanding the love you have for Christ, all those issues died. I just wanted you to be clear about my own fears. Lets move on.

Next: Please reread the letter from Jesus (alarm bells). Let me draw your attention to the passage that says that I will know when His hand is spinning the wheel. It is a reference to pottery. "Thou art the Potter, I am the clay." I am very aware of all the implications of this.

Until later,

Yatsar

 

 

Submitted:  Tue, Apr 20, 2004 9:35 am
Subject:  Who am I?

 

Dear Peniel,

 

This time I will take the time I need and work offline -

 

The questions du jour:

 

First, who are you and why are you here?

Second, how can you love your husband, family, and others better?

Later, everything else.

 

For a long time I have asked myself  ‘Who am I, where am I and what in the world am I doing here?' As I grow and change, the answers change, naturally. At this point I will say I am ‘one who is precious and beautiful in the eyes of the Lord- a child with a penchant for wandering a bit' I don't even really understand my own name, but assume that I will grow into understanding.  Who I am is not the same as what I DO, but like works and grace the being and doing are intertwined. It is more a question of HOW I do what I do so that it accurately reflects who I am.

 

Why am I here is a very good question. The general answer, as I have stated before, is ‘to love and be loved' From reading your discourse on being the recipients of Christ's love, I would say that in actively loving I am fulfilling at least one (and perhaps the main reason) for existence. I have wondered why I have been placed in this place and time. One of the answers I have come to is that because I have incredible freedom, both because I live in the US in 2004, and because those closest to me have all given me the freedom to be and do anything I choose, I think that one reason I am here is to define myself by my choices. Even my physical being is this way. If you got the photo, you know that physically I am astoundingly average. I must choose whether I desire to emphasize American standard good looks, or if I would rather hide that aspect of my being.  Most people cannot see beyond the first impression, and for the most part I have chosen to ignore the desires of the current fashion gurus.  Being trained to see what is really there (notwithstanding your discussion on the nature of the matrix -fpu- in the mind of God) I often see incredible beauty, and also its opposite, where no one untrained would recognize it. I look for t

he structure and substance beneath the surface.  But this all still begs the question of specific purpose that Jesus indicated.  I note that He offers complete choice (but with what persuasion to His side!)  So, also I note that while He has a specific mission and plan, He wants me to discover and create it. I really, really need help with this. I don't really know the point at which I can do the most good. At least one of my students has told me ‘ Don’t wonder if your life is worthwhile - you have helped me find my way.' I don't know about this - artistically maybe- she claims to be a ‘Metho-presby-Buddha-bapterian' and lately has tried to figure out how to add some more terms! I can't help but love her. 

 

To the second question: i will start with ‘others' first, as I have already mentioned my students.  I teach adults primarily and they all know that I care for them individually. They know this because I talk to each one about their ongoing projects each class period. Each one is at a different level of experience so really if I have 8 in a class, I teach 8 different lesson plans.  I know you know exactly what I am talking about. In addition, I do the skut work that is required to have a successful outcome. Few, if any, are capable of mixing glazes or firing the work.  In this capacity, I am mostly competent, but occasionally screw up big time. When this happens I take responsibility and have found everyone to be very forgiving. I try to encourage everyone to work to their highest capacity and to increase that capacity. I never condemn any work, even though i have seen a lot of really ugly pieces. We just analyze and take the good and discard what is unlovely. Again with the choices! I give everyone permission to fail big time, as I know it will happen, and I want them t o have the strength to pick up and go on. I know you aren't a clay kinda guy, but trust me when I say that the discipline is difficult in the best of circumstances and excruciating in the worst. Also, we don't make ashtrays! I desire for everyone to become as competent as they can - I have empowered all students at whatever level to be both teacher and student. I learn a lot from them! In communicating with each student, we always make eye contact, and occasionally touch - hand, shoulder, etc. I don't withhold critical suggestions, but these comments are offered in the setting of a critique where we say what is good, what might be discarded or used in a different way and then what we would do different. It is amazing that I can really help them get off dead center with their skills and ideas, but can't seem to do it with my own problem.  The way I think I could love them better is to have a little more structure in my class. I think I could get more out of them by some more direction. Also, I haven't been willing to show them my work as much as might be desirable. I have a real concern about ‘imposing' myself on them, and what a lot of them desire is that I do a little more imposing. I have been given the gift of creativity in spades, and give suggestions for consideration to each individual as I see their direction emerging. I love it that I can see so many different ideas play out and develop. I couldn't possibly carry out all my thinking in one lifetime, so they have to help me by becoming themselves! I am merely a catalyst.

 

In loving my family, the same principles apply. -Freedom, support and I am working on being more encouraging, having a kinder tone of voice. I have put too much expectation on my daughter, but she has grown up to be just an incredibly lovely person in spite of it. Of course I tell her verbally that I love her, and in the past have supported her in every way I know how. Because of severe illness, a lot of this support involved keeping her alive- fighting for

 her through the medical system, etc, etc.

I can't say I provided the ‘warm and fuzzy' as much as might be warranted, but now that she is married and on her own, she has realized and acknowledged what I have done for her (I did not ask) and we have a great relationship. For her, I still offer whatever support she asks for, but I stay out of her marriage. We love our son-in-law - we would love anyone our daughter chose.  I am not sure how to give them any more at this point. (Except maybe an improved set of dishes!)

 

All the principles I have discussed apply to my husband as well. As you know full well he is taken into serious consideration before I do anything that might impact his well-being. My expressions of love to him often involve a lot of physical labor - he builds furniture and I am often called to help lift, move, etc.  Next time I'm marrying a piccolo player! :) I also make an effort to join him in activities he likes - taking care of our woods and whatnot.  We allow

- each other the freedom to do what is desired. It is even understood that there is no requirement from me for him to stay with me if he doesn't choose to do that. (of course, I don't wish him to leave, I truly think it would be wrong to separate, but I've never seen a marriage yet that the partners didn't consider being single again at least at some time. )We've been married about 30 years, so the system seems to be working,  with no affairs on either side. Communication is sometimes a problem, but less so than in most relationships. I had thought that he might want to be privy to these emails, but he has refused. I think he wants to give me complete freedom and choice, as he had asked me several years ago to get some counseling. The ‘warm and fuzzy' isn't as strong as it could be. This is again at l

east in part related to some health issues. I am making an extra effort to be more affectionate toward him. I know he wishes that would have happened 20 years ago, but the past is dead and we have now. We do have a lot of just plain fun together - mostly involving language and concepts.  No one loves a pun more than he does, except maybe me. I am also making an effort to be more appreciative of his work. He does beautiful work,  and often asks my opinion on various aspects, which I give honestly. Usually I simply agree with his choices, but occasionally I can suggest improvement. I suspect he would say that usually I suggest improvement and occasionally agree with his choices. It's a fine line.

Eye contact is plentiful during most conversations, but it is ver

y difficult for me to make this contact SAYING ‘I love you' In fact , it is difficult to say the words at all, most of the time. This may involve some work. I feel completely exposed in this situation, which is the way it should be, but I just get upset if anyone looks at me too closely and too intensely. (as an aside, I have a reputation for being extremely laid back, but as you already know, the fact of the matter is that the being that I am is rather intense. Way too many tears, joy, frustration, unknown causes)

 

Well, its time to wind this up, I think. I am feeling exhausted. Thank you for your reassurances.

 

In Christ,

Yatsar

 

 

Submitted:  Tue, Apr 20, 2004 4:08 pm
 Subject: Your personal Mission and Purpose

BCC: NONE: PRIVATE

 

(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Peniel,

My dear Yatsar,

 

This time I will take the time I need and work offline -

The questions du jour:

 

First, who are you and why are you here?

Second, how can you love your husband, family, and others better?

Later, everything else.

 

For a long time I have asked myself ‘who am I, where am I and what in the world am I doing here?' As I grow and change, the answers change, naturally. At this point I will say I am ‘one who is precious and beautiful in the eyes of the Lord- a child with a penchant for wandering a bit' I don't even really understand my own name, but assume that I will grow into understanding. Who I am is not the same as what I DO, but like works and grace the being and doing are intertwined. It is more a question of HOW I do what I do so that it accurately reflects who I am.

 

Why am I here is a very good question. The general answer, as I have stated before, is ‘to love and be loved' from reading your discourse on being the recipients of Christ's love, I would say that in actively loving I am fulfilling at least one (and perhaps the main reason) for existence. I have wondered why I have been placed in this place and time. One of the answers I have come to is that because I have incredible freedom, both because I live in the US in 2004, and because those closest to me have all given me the freedom to be and do anything I choose, I think that one reason I am here is to define myself by my choices. Even my physical being is this way. If you got the photo, you know that physically I am astoundingly average. I must choose whether I desire to emphasize American standard good looks, or if I would rather hide that aspect of my being. Most people cannot see beyond the first impression, and for the most part I have chosen to ignore the desires of the current fashion gurus. Being trained to see what is really there (notwithstanding your discussion on the nature of the matrix -fpu- in the mind of God) I often see incredible beauty, and also its opposite, where no one untrained would recognize it. I look for the structure and substance beneath the surface. But this all still begs the question of specific purpose that Jesus indicated.

Man is greatly enhanced by ‘art', for true art shows man the divine within and without himself. Those whom ‘teach' art are of great benefit to the world in general, and greatly uplift man in all aspects.

 

If an alien came down and want to see what was ‘best' about human beings, what was our ‘highest achievements', what do you think we would show to this alien? Computers, flashlights, big buildings? NO.

 

ART! Our greatest treasures, where common materials have been transformed into objects of great beauty. AND, when that art is not only beautiful, but also functional, this is a double prize. Granted, we would not take a delicate and rare tiffany vase and use it for either a tea dispenser or even a flower vase (as it was intended), BUT, it could be used thusly. What are the MOST valuable ‘objects' that exist in quantity here in earth? ART. How has some canvas and a few tubes of paint now become worth millions of dollars? Artists. How was some clay and water and paint and glaze become a priceless treasure? Artisans.

 

And, those whom are able to impart and or enhance these abilities in others, this is a truly noble and grand destiny and purpose.

 

(It also perfectly fits your talents, name, and from what I can gather, is probably a great source of ‘fulfillment' for you personally.) I am certain that we have, in your personal case, found your ‘true calling', mission and purpose for here and now.

 

Now, there is one thing missing in your ‘instructing others in art' and that is ‘spirit'. You are an outstanding teacher, of that I have no doubt, but there is a greater level that you can teach at.

 

I want you to think very carefully about what I now propose to you, to bring your full gifts and talents together into a single unified expression (which is your ‘true mission'):

 

First, the ‘simplified version', then a very expanded (clarifying) version of your current Personal Mission Statement:

 

The Simple Version:  Show others God in your work.

 

Show (express what you have learned, are learning, will learn about, and already know about; demonstrate to; reveal your inner self; expose your inner child) others (students, viewers, family, husband, self, daughter, relatives, everyone you come in contact with each and every day) GOD (Love, Truth, Perfection, Power, Beauty, Joy, Integrity, Soundness, Holiness, Wholeness, Unity) in (by, through, contained within, pointed to, instructed in, expressed through) your (expression of your ‘self' in; belonging to you, done by you, created by you, assigned to you, given to you, for you to do, your purpose, your mission) work (art, pottery, housework, caring for those around you, daily living, tasks that are assigned to you, what you are ‘to do', your job, your teaching, your responsibilities, your family interactions, your efforts, your labor, your purpose, your mission).

 

This single ‘Mission Statement' that God has revealed for you and your ‘life, work, job, mission, and purpose' here and now should be very deep and have meaning to you on multiple levels (just as you name should.)

 

If you take and put ‘all' of the definitions for ‘show' (of which I have only listed a few) and the same for each word, and then make sentences using a sampling of these terms, you will create hundreds of separate statements that will assist you to enlightenment into the rich diversity and meaning in this statement of ‘WHAT YOU SHOULD BE DOING."

 

For example:

 

Express what you have learned to – students – about Beauty – contained within – and created by you – your pottery.

 

Here is one thing God wants for you to do. Show your students what true ‘beauty' is by allowing them to see your most beautiful piece of pottery. (This will give them a higher goal to strive toward, and show them what CAN be accomplished with mere mud, stain and glaze.)

 

Another example:

 

Expose your inner child – to your husband – expressing your Love - contained within - belonging to you – is your purpose.

 

Tell your husband that loving him by taking care of his needs and giving him pleasure, IS your mission in life. You are desiring to show just how strong and passionate is your love for him, for this is your main purpose in life. This love is yours to do with as you choose, and you choose him!

 

 I note that He offers complete choice (but with what persuasion to His side!) So, also I note that while He has a specific mission and plan, He wants me to discover and create it. I really, really need help with this. I don't really know the point at which I can do the most good. At least one of my students has told me ‘Don't wonder if your life is worthwhile - you have helped me find my way.' I don't know about this - artistically maybe- she claims to be a ‘Metho-presby-Buddha-bapterian' and lately has tried to figure out how to add some more terms! I can't help but love her.

See above for all your answers. 

 

To the second question: I will start with ‘others' first, as I have already mentioned my students. I teach adults primarily and they all know that I care for them individually. They know this because I talk to each one about their ongoing projects each class period. Each one is at a different level of experience so really if I have 8 in a class, I teach 8 different lesson plans. I know you know exactly what I am talking about. In addition, I do the skut work that is required to have a successful outcome. Few, if any, are capable of mixing glazes or firing the work. In this capacity, I am mostly competent, but occasionally screw up big time. When this happens I take responsibility and have found everyone to be very forgiving. I try to encourage everyone to work to their highest capacity and to increase that capacity. I never condemn any work, even though I have seen a lot of really ugly pieces. We just analyze and take the good and discard what is unlovely. Again with the choices! I give everyone permission to fail big time, as I know it will happen, and I want them to have the strength to pick up and go on. I know you aren't a clay kinda guy, but trust me when I say that the discipline is difficult in the best of circumstances and excruciating in the worst. Also, we don't make ashtrays! I desire for everyone to become as competent as they can - I have empowered all students at whatever level to be both teacher and student. I learn a lot from them! In communicating with each student, we always make eye contact, and occasionally touch - hand, shoulder, etc. I don't withhold critical suggestions, but these comments are offered in the setting of a critique where we say what is good, what might be discarded or used in a different way and then what we would do different. It is amazing that I can really help them get off dead center with their skills and ideas, but can't seem to do it with my own problem. The way I think I could love them better is to have a little more structure in my class. I think I could get more out of them by some more direction. Also, I haven't been willing to show them my work as much as might be desirable. I have a real concern about ‘imposing' myself on them, and what a lot of them desire is that I do a little more imposing. I have been given the gift of creativity in spades, and give suggestions for consideration to each individual as I see their direction emerging. I love it that I can see so many different ideas play out and develop. I couldn't possibly carry out all my thinking in one lifetime, so they have to help me by becoming themselves! I am merely a catalyst.

See above for all your answers. 

 

In loving my family, the same principles apply. -Freedom, support and I am working on being more encouraging, having a kinder tone of voice. I have put too much expectation on my daughter, but she has grown up to be just an incredibly lovely person in spite of it. Of course I tell her verbally that I love her, and in the past have supported her in every way I know how. Because of severe illness, a lot of this support involved keeping her alive- fighting for her through the medical system, etc, etc.

See above for all your answers. 

 

I can't say I provided the ‘warm and fuzzy' as much as might be warranted, but now that she is married and on her own, she has realized and acknowledged what I have done for her (I did not ask) and we have a great relationship. For her, I still offer whatever support she asks for, but I stay out of her marriage. We love our son-in-law - we would love anyone our daughter chose. I am not sure how to give them any more at this point. (Except maybe an improved set of dishes!)

See above for all your answers. 

 

All the principles I have discussed apply to my husband as well. As you know full well he is taken into serious consideration before I do anything that might impact his well-being. My expressions of love to him often involve a lot of physical labor - he builds furniture and I am often called to help lift, move, etc. Next time I'm marrying a piccolo player! :) I also make an effort to join him in activities he likes - taking care of our woods and whatnot. We allow - each other the freedom to do what is desired. It is even understood that there is no requirement from me for him to stay with me if he doesn't choose to do that. (Of course, I don't wish him to leave, I truly think it would be wrong to separate, but I've never seen a marriage yet that the partners didn't consider being single again at least at some time.) We've been married about 30 years, so the system seems to be working, with no affairs on either side. Communication is sometimes a problem, but less so than in most relationships. I had thought that he might want to be privy to these emails, but he has refused. I think he wants to give me complete freedom and choice, as he had asked me several years ago to get some counseling. The ‘warm and fuzzy' isn't as strong as it could be. This is again at least in part related to some health issues. I am making an extra effort to be more affectionate toward him. I know he wishes that would have happened 20 years ago, but the past is dead and we have now. We do have a lot of just plain fun together - mostly involving language and concepts. No one loves a pun more than he does, except maybe me. I am also making an effort to be more appreciative of his work. He does beautiful work, and often asks my opinion on various aspects, which I give honestly. Usually I simply agree with his choices, but occasionally I can suggest improvement. I suspect he would say that usually I suggest improvement and occasionally agree with his choices. It's a fine line.

See above for all your answers. 

 

Eye contact is plentiful during most conversations, but it is very difficult for me to make this contact SAYING ‘I love you' in fact, it is difficult to say the words at all, most of the time. This may involve some work.

We will work on this in time.

 

I feel completely exposed in this situation, which is the way it should be, but I just get upset if anyone looks at me too closely and too intensely. (As an aside, I have a reputation for being extremely laid back, but as you already know, the fact of the matter is that the being that I am is rather intense. Way too many tears, joy, frustration, unknown causes)

I understand. I feel deeply for you. I am so pleased that you gave me so much and were so clear. It made it extremely simple to see and point out to you that you are already in your proper purpose and only some ‘enhancement' would improve it.

 

 

Well, its time to wind this up, I think. I am feeling exhausted. Thank you for your reassurances.

Well, this is quite a change! Your verbosity and I only need a few words to instruct you with! 

 

In Christ,

Yatsar

 

Praise be to Jesus Christ,

 

Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Tue, Apr 20, 2004 6:58 pm
Subject:  Art, Coming full circle

 

Dear Peniel,

It seems we have come full circle (or perhaps just taken the short path!)  The mission statement is clear and intelligible and comfortable. I don't quite know how to "release the inner child" yet, but will sink below the verbal to make contact. If you have instructions for me on this, I am here. When you state the mission as "Show others God in your work" it hits a chord in me that resounds harmonically. I have often thought that I should be doing more that technical work, and now with your confirmation, I will go ahead. The big issue has always been financial. I think I will just do art and let Jesus take care of it.

Some time ago I was called on to help judge and art show and decided that I needed to develop a working definition in order to be a good judge. I came up with a statement that can be visualized as an equilateral triangle with a dot in the middle. Each point is as follows: 1) technology 2) culture and 3) spirit. The dot in the middle is the object of art. So the definition goes: Art is a technologically supported, culturally relevant expression of overarching spiritual values (truth, beauty, joy, etc) The piece of art could be in any form - dance, music, ceramic, etc) but should be balanced in the middle of the triangle. If an object comes close to the technological point, the object might be a computer. If it comes close to the cultural point, it might be popular song that is here one year and gone the next. If it comes close to the spiritual point, it might be an essay in philosophy.

I wish to thank you for your time. You have clarified what should have been obvious to anyone, but was fuzzy to me, but it makes good sense. If I hadn't thought you were a teacher before, I would now. You are right on target.

The last email did not contain your usual kind signature, so I can't tell if it is just missing, or if you do not wish to continue any discourse. I will not trespass on your time if that is the case. I think your time is getting squeezed. In any case, you have done much for me, and I treasure your commentary. As I said, if you do not wish any further communication from me, I will simply access the archives, as they are valuable.

In Jesus

with love, Yatsar

 

 

Submitted:  Tue, Apr 20, 2004 8:30 pm
Subject:  apology

 

Dear Peniel

As regards my last email, I apologize for even thinking you might want to discontinue communication. I am very tired, and you are extremely busy, so, if you would, just resend your last email to me so the final commentary and signature are on it, Thanks. Then, I will give it and you a rest for a few days. You have given me a lot to decipher.

In Christ,
Yatsar

PS - you were right about "ken" having the meaning of "upright" "integrity"

 

 

Submitted:  Wed, Apr 21, 2004 10:04 am
Subject:  apology

 

Yatsar,
 
I will answer you last (silly) email first.
 
Just because I don't always end by saying I love you, you should still know. Even if I don't sign-off with my normal spiritual admonitions, perhaps I was busy, or had already sent you 3 or 4 that day.
 
Perhaps you made 'false assumptions' about me based on what you 'thought' I should do.
 
Now, regarding my stopping communications with you: I understand how you might feel about it, but when I am done communicating with you, I will certain tell you that and make it very clear.
 
With my mission to teach others the truth, I am unable to ever 'stop' communicating with someone, no matter how I feel about it or them, so long as they want to communicate or still have questions or unresolved issues, etc. Jesus will never 'let me off the hook' with anyone, and this is for your 'peace of mind' that as long as I am alive and capable of responding, I WILL. I am yours from now on, forever, so long as YOU choose to continue. I have no choice, unless I disobey Him.
 
Do not be concerned over my 'stopping' communications with you, OR, that you might be communicating 'too much' with me (i.e. you think you are taking up too much of my time.) I am a very big boy, and I am not like 'others' you know. I do not lie, I do not pull any punches, I tell it like I see it, I say what I think and feel. I do put it in such a way as it is least likely to 'hurt' the other, but I do not intentionally deceive or mislead or even hide anything from others. I am open and honest. These are SOME of the 20 rules I live by, my 'orders' and vows if you will.
 
If I felt that you were taking up too much of my time (which would be virtually impossible, as long as we were discussing spirituality, love, God, you, your mission, your purpose, your problems, your issues, etc.) then I would clearly say to you, "Yatsar, you need to slow down because you are taking up too much of my time. I need some of this time for others whom I am now getting behind in counseling." BUT I DO NOT SAY THIS, now, or probably ever. God will MAKE time for what is truly important, if we choose it.
 
ALSO, at this time, Dave (with the marital problems) is digesting and applying all that Jesus has taught him, Tom is typing in scanned pages from my old books, JD Masty is in limbo considering the spiritual differences between CWG and Christianity, and Jesus has obviously arranged it so that right now, I have sufficient 'spare time' to devote to you, as you needed at the beginning of your journey.
 
You indeed have much now to keep you busy for a while, but there is nothing wrong with emailing me IF YOU FEEL LIKE IT.
 
I will tell you if and when you are using up too much of my time. (Jesus told you that my time was precious, and that YOU had been allotted a large slice that you should use as you see fit, while it is available.) I take what He says seriously and at face value, and I got the message that for now, He wanted me to devote a lot of time to you. This is obviously why everyone else has 'settled' down for a while.
 
So, at least with me, do not 'jump to conclusions' and unless I tell you a thing is so, do not assume it is so (at least, not with me.) I do not mind telling anyone to back off, if it is appropriate. I also do not mind chastising someone or putting them in their place (if I feel that is needed) - see some very recent emails to Tenny for examples.
 
I love you - Kathy Yatsar Yo Tser ken Mizraq Kunst Fendl, and I will be open and honest with you, always.
 
Perhaps you have gathered, I live my life as closely as I can to an Imitation of Christ, I work hard to follow in His steps very closely, and to always do as He would do, especially with 'other' people. How do you think Jesus would treat you in this respect? He will be open and honest, and He will tell you when you are taking up too much of His time... but He has LOTS of time for someone as precious and important as YOU, Yatsar!
 
 
With love, in imitation of my Precious Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, to God's glory and honor, and in hopes that I will not always have to put a lengthy spiritual admonition on each and every email to you soas you will not believe I am therefore leaving you or some other such silly notion...

Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Wed, Apr 21, 2004 10:53 am
Subject:  Well, well

 

Councilor man,

Whew! Well said. One of the reasons I know I can trust you is that you never let me get away with garbage. As I have mentioned before, misinterpretation is sometimes a problem and last night I was too tired to be writing emails. Some better judgment is in order here.  As soon as I sent off the first one, I realized that it was crazy, that you wouldn't have spent all this time and effort to gain my confidence and then just leave. Especially since I know your obedience and love for Christ.

As to the email in question, when I downloaded it onto my computer, text showed up that didn't show up in the (hypertext?) Of course, that was AFTER I had replied to you. What I actually received was rather abrupt and not like you at all. Fatigue and the lack of computer skills strike again.

To quote a famous authority "'nuff said."

I note that my name has expanded! I also "hear" the love/chastisement in using the full name, as parents are want to do with an aggravating child. Back to the lexicon! A wonderful "coincidence" that I have not shared with you yet is that my husband's name is "Ken" and he is full of integrity. He did finally read some of the communication and was almost misty eyed over the love letter from Jesus with the following discussion of the name. He has long held the opinion that I should not worry about the monetary things. (Its just that I do all the bills and so forth - I am just going to have more trust that if I do what I am meant to do, it will all work out. I actually have plenty of experience with dire straights and still waver at times.) We are currently trying to figure out how to sign my work. I have just a few hours to finish a piece I have been working on for about 5-6 years and since I feel my identity is more defined (and after today, even more so) I am  hoping to get one of the photographers at work to get a good shot of it and i will send you a copy. I'm sure the graphics design/marketing people  will do it for me if I ask.

I am sure you realize that there has been a tremendous amount of growth on my end in the last week. Like, dude, the light bulb was sooooo ready to change!

As regards what is going on with the rest of this group - I also have some confusions regarding CWG, as when I just saw the cover two years ago all systems went on alert and I HAD TO READ IT. It challenged a lot of concepts I had, and I still feel that there is a lot of truth in the books, but am not completely at ease with some concepts. I have a number of experiences that I can't explain that show up in these books. (A few things have "gotten me through" though, such as the very clever "I AM with you always - all ways" Mostly, though, today I just don't care. I have to do what I have to do and will leave the rest to God. It brought me to your work, because I read a review that indicated someone (you) out there had a similar but Christian version and I had to check it out. I would not otherwise be writing to you now.

On another subject: These communications are very good, and I am thinking that I should open them  up (here we go again!) to other members of the group. What do you think?

Also, I am feeling the need for sensory input. That is to say, I might call in a few days mostly to hear your voice. It is sometimes easier for me to interpret messages when I have a "record" on board. I won't even insult you by asking. I already know I will be welcome.

With great respect and affection,

Yatsar, etc.

 

Submitted:  Wed, Apr 21, 2004 11:53 am
Subject: Your Mission Statement, What Is God

BCC: NONE: PRIVATE

 

(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Peniel,

It seems we have come full circle (or perhaps just taken the short path!)  The mission statement is clear and intelligible and comfortable.

Wonderful! I love it when people take the short path, few do! Also, in the future you mission statement may change (but, I seriously doubt it. This seems like a life-long charge and challenge!)

 

I don't quite know how to "release the inner child" yet, but will sink below the verbal to make contact. If you have instructions for me on this, I am here.

Again, a lesson for our later discussions (perhaps you should start a list, and as we run out of things that you want to talk about, we will then cover the material I keep putting off til later in your training.)

 

 When you state the mission as "Show others God in your work" it hits a chord in me that resounds harmonically. I have often thought that I should be doing more that technical work, and now with your confirmation, I will go ahead. The big issue has always been financial. I think I will just do art and let Jesus take care of it.
Do not risk your financial situation! Rather, look for new opportunities (which should shortly present themselves) where you can ‘add love' to what you were already doing (God will provide these opportunities to you, just LOOK for them.) 

 

Remember, do exactly what you have been doing, AND, add more of your ‘self' to it. Add more ‘love' to it. Don't just show them… show them GOD, show them the Goodness that is within you!

 

I realize that you have not made the Gestalt that you will eventually make, and when you do, it will become much easier to ‘show others God' in your ‘work'. Perhaps this ‘showing God to others' is the next lesson I will work on with you, as now would be an appropriate time to do so.

 

What IS God?

=======================

You see; God is a title, not the Creator's name. It is like the titles: King, or Master of the Universe, or Most High. It describes WHAT He is, not necessarily WHO He is. He is YHWH (Yahweh in our English), which is His NAME. That is WHO He is, like I am Peniel and you are Yatsar. Yahweh literally means: I AM; I AM THAT I AM; I AM WHO AM. (Or, in Peniel's modern slang terms: I BE!)

 

But, he is also called The Big Guy, God, Creator, Alpha and Omega, King of Glory, etc. These are all titles that describe either what He is or what He does.

 

God is really our English word for ‘That which is perceived as Most Good', or ‘Highest known Good', or ‘Gooooooooood'! It means extremely and exceptionally good.

 

Jesus once said to a man that his God was money, and that the man was surly worshiping his God in his actions.

 

A ‘god' does NOT have to be The Supreme Being, nor does a ‘god' (lower case g) even have to be good. A ‘God' (capital G) has to be Good (capital G.)

 

Some examples: Leonardo was a Gooooooooood artist; his art is Godlike in its quality. Leonardo is a god of art and a God of art for many students.

 

Bruce Lee was gooooooooood at martial arts. He was a god of the martial arts, and others see him as the God of Martial Arts.

 

In these two instances, I would agree with these statements. These were indeed two examples of the ‘highest and noblest' in their respective fields, therefore, Gods. And, both were good not only at their art, but also good people, therefore, they are fine Gods.

 

I would encourage a person for whom martial arts is his all in all (his hope, his aspiration, his religion) to adopt Bruce Lee as his God of Martial Arts, and thereby seek to be like him, emulate him, study him, and attempt to become as good as he was.

 

Also, Jesus said that we were gods, mini-gods. We humans are admonished to be perfect, as our heavenly Father is perfect. When we become extremely good, when we become gooooooooood, it is common for others to recognize this very unique and special quality in us, and to even view us as a god, or God. (NOTE: We are NOT the Creator, we are not the Most High, and we and those seeing us as god know this, BUT, when we are at the top of our form, and are the best at what we do, in this category, we are extremely good, we are God.)

 

Also, since the true Most High God (the Father) is truly present within each of us, it is that God that others recognize in our extreme goodness, for all Good comes from and IS God (the Most High God.) It is the Most High God in us that expresses Himself in our Goodness, and when others recognize His Holy Hand in what He has inspired us to do, this is typically the God that they recognize and even acknowledge in us.

 

When we are children, our parents are our Gods. They gave us life, they give us our food and shelter, and they take care of us and make us happy. They are the highest good we know as children. This is good and appropriate, and it is right that children view their parents as God. Later, the children mature and some of them develop new Gods: money, fame, Elvis Presley, fortune, leisure, TV, the president, or perhaps even the Creator. It is normal and correct to have multiple Gods, so long as one knows and recognizes the Most High God – the Creator.

 

God the Creator would prefer that we have Him Only as our God, but, we have free will and there are situations where He realizes that it is difficult for us to accept Him as our God (such as when we are young children, before we are taught about Him.)

 

Also, if people see God in us (Yatsar, for example) for they see the magnificence shown in a piece of her pottery, so beautiful, so artistic, so beyond the ordinary, that person is likely to see the influence, event he very hand of God (the Most High) in your expression of art. They may know you as the creator of this object, and see the God in you. They may even then see you as their God of pottery. This is NOT necessarily a bad thing, especially if YOU can take this affection they are intending toward you and redirect it back to the Most High God. Remember, He is in you, and if another desires to Love (Acknowledge, Accept, Appreciate, Admire, or even Adore) the God (Most High) that both is within you and is obviously expressing His Goodness in the perfection of your art, you should ACCEPT this love they communicate to you.

 

It is part of your mission and YOUR JOB to be GOD for those around you, for you are now learning how to love with God's own pure and powerful love. God, when He gives someone their personal mission and purpose, desires for that person to BE GOD (be extremely good) for and to others.

 

Do not be surprised or disaccepting when others attempt to ‘adore' you, for you, as a reflection of God Himself, as you become the perfect person He has destined for you to be, you are WORTHY of this ADORATION of others. If they see you as God, and wish to adore you (extremely strong, pure love so that they see you as ALL GOOD, the Highest Good they know) this is OK.

 

You should take this love they give to you and immediately acknowledge to the ‘lover' that the Most High God has given you this gift and talent, and His is the Glory in it. Also, take the benefits you gain from being ‘adored' and lavish them on your husband and family, and in this way, return back to God that which He has lavished on you through the adorer.

 

Do not feel alone, all GREAT persons, all those whom God calls to a higher level of spiritual life, all those whom come close to Him and thereby become God-like, have their true talents and gifts show to others, so that they may see how great God is (through us.)

 

I have had countless persons see the Christ-like qualities in me, and have at some point begun to adore me (they think that I am nothing but good, and have no faults, and could never be wrong. They see me as the highest expression of good they know, and determine they would like to be like me and often start imitating me.)

 

I understand their adoration of me, and I redirect this adoration back to the Most High. I also point out to this adorer of mine, that were it not for Christ, I would be a mere slug of a man, not a holy person worthy of such adoration. But, yes, I am a very close Imitation of Christ, and if He were here today, He would be very much like I AM. HE has made me this way, so that others could recognize Him very strongly present in me, so that they would be willing to learn from me.

 

I accept that I am a VERY CLOSE imitation of Christ, and I hope and pray that I am as close to actual personality of Jesus Himself as is humanly possible. I want others to SEE CLEARLY the Christ in me, so that they will learn what He has to tell them. I understand that as the ‘see me AS CHRIST" they will likely desire to adore me, and I accept this as both a useful and appropriate situation. God desires to ALLOW them to adore Him (and in one way does this by letting them express their feeling toward God TO ME, and I take the love they give me and redirect it back to God by lavishing it upon those close to me.)

 

I also accept their adoration, for I AM worthy of it. I AM (the Name of the Creator) is in me, and the good they see in me is merely His reflection. I do not mind them worshiping the Most High God that is within me, manifesting Himself sometimes in my words and actions, and it is good and appropriate that they give Him adoration when they see Him. HE is WORTHY, and HE is right here in me… as HE is in you.

 

To BE GOOD to others, to BE GOD for others, to Show others GOD in your work; is to allow yourself to blossom, to become all that He wants you to be, and to NOT hide that light under a basket, but to set it on a hill so that others may see the brilliance of the light.

 

It is right that He perfects you, as you allow Him to, and in this perfection, you should accept your responsibility to be a lamp to others, to show how magnificent you are (and WHO has made you that way.) It is part of your job to show just how astounding art can be, even simple art, when done with ‘love' and express to them how sincerely and strongly you ‘feel' about this art.

 

I will tell you another secret; most people are looking hard to find something ‘sacred'. Art, when done by a naturally talented master (which I am sure you either are, or soon will be) expresses the glorious beauty and balance of nature, and others can sometimes see the divine in this art. This art can be sacred. The sacred often seems to transcend the ordinary, as if somehow the Most High Himself had touched or inspired it. It is difficult for an architect to have a sacred work, or a computer programmer, BUT, not an artist!

 

So, in a minor summary of most of that above, part of your mission is to show others the God that is clearly within you, and if they choose, allow them to love you at any level (including adoring you) and ACCEPT this love of theirs. Know that He is within you and HE is certainly worthy. You also, once you have been perfected will truly be worthy of another's adoration, and it is good that they adore you!

 

I already ADORE you! I see you as all good, and I know how great you are destined to be. I see clearly how close to God the Most High you already are, and I also see clearly how much you desire to be all that He wants of you. I see how high that is, and I know how many you will touch with your gifts and talent and what a profound effect your ‘work' when infused with your ‘spirit' (soul, personality, love, indwelling God-power, etc.) will have on so many.

 

Whew! Talk about a old wind-bag (I AM!)


Some time ago I was called on to help judge and art show and decided that I needed to develop a working definition in order to be a good judge. I came up with a statement that can be visualized as an equilateral triangle with a dot in the middle. Each point is as follows: 1) technology 2) culture and 3) spirit. The dot in the middle is the object of art. So the definition goes: Art is a technologically supported, culturally relevant expression of overarching spiritual values (truth, beauty, joy, etc) The piece of art could be in any form - dance, music, ceramic, etc) but should be balanced in the middle of the triangle. If an object comes close to the technological point, the object might be a computer. If it comes close to the cultural point, it might be popular song that is here one year and gone the next. If it comes close to the spiritual point, it might be an essay in philosophy.
And this sort of insight and balance is exactly what I am referring to as ‘sacred' art.

 


I wish to thank you for your time. You have clarified what should have been obvious to anyone, but was fuzzy to me, but it makes good sense. If I hadn't thought you were a teacher before, I would now. You are right on target.

When the student is properly prepared and ready, often the teacher will appear.

The last email did not contain your usual kind signature, so I can't tell if it is just missing, or if you do not wish to continue any discourse. I will not trespass on your time if that is the case. I think your time is getting squeezed.  In any case, you have done much for me, and I treasure your commentary. As I said, if you do not wish any further communication from me, I will simply access the archives, as they are valuable.
Do NOT make assumptions regarding me, please. Do not read into these emails what is NOT said. If I mean to communicate something to you, I will do so (as was discussed in the last email about your silly supposition.) Also, do not apologize for whatever you do or say, I know that both you and I are just humans, although we are striving for a higher spirituality and a closer relationship with Jesus, we are after all mortal, fumbling, sinful, silly, flighty, and emotional lumps of clay.

 

You need never apologize to me unless I tell you so, assume that you are already forgiven (if there is even a hint of the need for forgiveness.) I, like you, make mistakes, sometimes say what I do not intend, sometimes allow my emotions to override my reason, and sometimes am just lazy or tired, and thus do not take the time to be clear.

 

When two Love each other with Christ's pure Love, as I do you (and as I hope you do for me), there is never a need to ask forgiveness or forgive… it is presupposed and assumed already.

 

You never heard Jesus apologizing to the Father for not living up to His standards, or for having not done all that He could have, or FOR ANYTHING, for when Love is perfected, one will NOT see fault or error in the other, unless it is for the purposes of training and instruction.


In Jesus
with love, Yatsar

 

 

Through Him, With Him, In Him, in the Unity of the Holy Spirit,

 

May God continue to fill your life with joy and you mind with peace,

 

Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Wed, Apr 21, 2004 2:18 pm
Subject:  tears

 

My dearest Peniel,

There is so much to comprehend and KNOW (not head knowledge) I am humbled and in need of serious prayer. Do tears short out keyboards?

Can you explain "gestalt"? I kind of know the word, but not clearly.

There have been so many times when (college) students would literally bow and say things like "We are not worthy" and then we would all laugh and I would tell them that they really can get good at this - just be patient and practice. With my adult students, I see the love in their eyes and hear it in the constant asking of advice, which I am more than happy to give. My heart breaks because I often don't know how to respond to this sort of adoration. I always want to acknowledge God - usually when someone goes on and on about my work I get so embarrassed that I will say something like "Well, you know it isn't all my fault!" or - "That’s why I get the big bucks!" (LOL)- I will not quit my day job.

I do have one student that I consider more as friend - the Metho-presby-budda-bapterian- and I am able to talk with her about spiritual things, but have not really had my own head on straight enough to give good direction. Her work is amazing in its power.  

For so long I have been politically correct in order not to impose a "religious view" that I end up actually killing myself, yes? I have some real angst about art in America. When I look at what generally goes for "approved and/or great art" I just have to wonder if we live in the same universe. I just don't get it a lot of times. Also, I think a lot of the art we see is not really expressing what I would consider to be healthy spiritual values. There is so much stuff that is just plain shit. It is demoralizing, and bad craftsmanship to boot.And it gets museum space. On the other hand, I do see a lot of just amazingly beautiful work. My current love is Fredrick Hart - he is a God to me in the sense I think you mean. If you get the time look him up on the net if you don't already know who he is.

In the last two or three months I have had the realization that I just cannot be a part of ugly art(even though things don't need to be "pretty' to be art) I think we need a heavy infusion of knock-down- gorgeous- luscious- color- sensuous -grab -you-in -the- gut- and- heart art. At least that is where I like to be.

I need to consider and reread your lesson several times and more will sink in. Please pray for my understanding, as I know you already do. I will do the same and pray also for/with you.

Adoringly,

Yatsar

 

Submitted:  Wed, Apr 21, 2004 8:22 pm
 Subject: God of Pottery

BCC: NONE: PRIVATE

 

(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):

---------------------------------------------------------------------

My dearest Peniel,

There is so much to comprehend and KNOW (not head knowledge) I am humbled and in need of serious prayer. Do tears short out keyboards?


Oh Ye God of Pottery,

Do not fear. All in good time. Jesus does not want to give you more than you can digest at once, although you seem to digest quite a lot and quickly. As quickly as you can gather (or absorb) it, we will dish it out.

 

You are right, there is much to learn, but, you already know the most important parts, and with what you already know, you are set for life. All the rest is merely icing on the cake.

 

I pray for you constantly, Jesus Himself prays for you. THAT will cause great change rapidly, I am certain.

 

Tears are not good for keyboards; the salt corrodes the contacts. I suggest tissues as needed, and if torrential tears come down (as mine do when Jesus appears), swimmer's goggles, emptied as fast as they fill.


Can you explain "gestalt"? I kind of know the word, but not clearly.

ge-stalt or Ge-stalt : A physical, biological, psychological, or symbolic configuration or pattern of elements so unified as a whole that its properties cannot be derived from a simple summation of its parts.

 

Gestalt is a German derivative word that means: Ah-Ha! Or 'I get it!" When you look at a cloud, and the guru next to you says, 'Oh look, that cloud looks like a large ceramic pot of medieval origin!" and you look but just don't see it, then suddenly in your mind it ‘appears and is obvious' – THAT is a Gestalt. It is the moment of ‘recognition' or ‘getting it'. Much of the I.T.S. Seminars that I give are ALL ABOUT ‘getting IT'. As a matter of a fact, when you found out what Yatsar meant, you probably had a big Gestalt, as it was now ‘apparent and obvious'. This ‘Eureka' effect is very common in my teachings, for this is what I primarily do, take people that don't ‘get it' transform them into people that now DO ‘get IT'.


Gestalt is also a type' of psychological exercises that Mark Johnson took in the late 70s which helped him to get in touch with the real person inside', if you will.


There have been so many times when (college) students would literally bow and say things like "We are not worthy" and then we would all laugh and I would tell them that they really can get good at this - just be patient and practice. With my adult students, I see the love in their eyes and hear it in the constant asking of advice, which I am more than happy to give. My heart breaks because I often don't know how to respond to this sort of adoration. I always want to acknowledge God - usually when someone goes on and on about my work I get so embarrassed that I will say something like "Well, you know it isn't all my fault!" or - "That's why I get the big bucks!" (LOL)- I will not quit my day job.
So now you have at least one area to ‘work on' in your ‘work'. I am certain that you have no problem accepting adoration from your young children. Be the same accepting vessel of love for those whom wish to adore your ‘art' and show them God. As a matter of a fact, next time one of them starts ‘going on' about your skills, tell them that you have recently figured out that YOU are the God of Pottery! (This is indeed a truth, and though they might take it as funny, it will ease you into that position properly. You might even add, smiling, 'Yea, verily! Let us all pause for a moment of silence is reverence to my God-like abilities." (You may receive laughter, but it is an acknowledgment of the TRUTH all the same!)

 

I sometimes tell people how tremendously blessed they are for knowing me and being allowed to ‘bask in my presence'. They usually think it is a joke, and it ‘can be', BUT, it is also true!

 

In time, we will teach you more about how to ‘easily and gracefully' receive the intense and pure ‘adoration' of others. Remember, you have already done this when your child adored you and said, 'Mommy, you are the bestest cooker in the whole world!" and, to that child, you were! It should have been easy, AS A MOTHER, to receive such adoration from YOUR CHILD (and of course, these are the keys.)

 

Put this on you list, and we will cover it more in dept in the future.


I do have one student that I consider more as friend - the Metho-presby-budda-bapterian- and I am able to talk with her about spiritual things, but have not really had my own head on straight enough to give good direction. Her work is amazing in its power.

It is NOT necessary to say the least thing ‘spiritually, or ‘religiously'. That is not what I mean by ‘Be God for others'. As a matter of a fact, you should avoid such conversations, if you can, with those whom you are ‘being God for'. To start with, simply accept their praise and rather than ‘blow it off', ‘blow it UP' (like I have suggested above.) It is NOT your place to ‘teach others about God or spiritual or religious things'. It IS part of your place to ‘BE God for them'.  

For so long I have been politically correct in order not to impose a "religious view" that I end up actually killing myself, yes? I have some real angst about art in America. When I look at what generally goes for "approved and/or great art" I just have to wonder if we live in the same universe. I just don't get it a lot of times. Also, I think a lot of the art we see is not really expressing what I would consider to be healthy spiritual values. There is so much stuff that is just plain shit. It is demoralizing, and bad craftsmanship to boot. And it gets museum space. On the other hand, I do see a lot of just amazingly beautiful work. My current love is Fredrick Hart - he is a God to me in the sense I think you mean. If you get the time look him up on the net if you don't already know whom he is.

I looked up many of Fredrick's pieces. I LOVE the crystals, and a couple of them (like the crosses) are magnificent. HOW DOES HE DO THAT!!!!

 

You see, that is the ‘sacred' revealed through the mundane.


In the last two or three months I have had the realization that I just cannot be a part of ugly art (even though things don't need to be "pretty' to be art) I think we need a heavy infusion of knock-down- gorgeous- luscious- color- sensuous -grab -you-in -the- gut- and- heart art. At least that is where I like to be.

Follow your heart; do as you ‘feel'. Now that you are ‘on the path' your instincts should be a great boon to you in your future choices. TRUST THEM!


I need to consider and reread your lesson several times and more will sink in. Please pray for my understanding, as I know you already do. I will do the same and pray also for/with you.
Please reread them again and again. I DO! (And I wrote them!!) Then put them aside, read something else that I wrote, and later come back to them fresh. Make you a list of ‘things to do', and ‘things to discuss with Peniel'. Add to them whenever you think of something. Prioritize them, so that you both DO and DISCUSS the most important things to you first, for we do not know how much time we have (for whatever reasons!)


adoringly,
yatsar

 

With my deepest and purest adoration to you and the man within (Ken) [Hey! That rhymes! – Longfeller!!]

 

Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Wed, Apr 21, 2004 10:51 pm
Subject:  Personalities

 

Greetings

Don't be concerned re: Mark/Peniel. Even if I thought you were a real fruitcake, I still need to write. Just the writing itself is a clarifying activity, but is much more fruitful with a good sounding board/counselor etc.

I'm sure you've guessed by now that there are not too many people who even can talk to me well. I don't mean to overstate the case, its just that I come up with these weird ideas and am trying to sort out the truth. It’s getting better.

The emails are a problem -for some reason a whole bunch of them have come in with a major portion of missing text. I think I'm getting most of the text when I download to my desktop, but - you da computer guy - you figure it out. I guess if I see a large blank space at the bottom of the message, I will assume that cyberspace has struck again. Just send the text - I can figure out who is speaking. Also - If you want to go ahead and open up to BCC that's fine. I haven't gotten any of those communications since we went private.(I can look on the archives - no problem)

Its late - I'm not going to write further now - The weather map looked bad out your direction - hope all is well

In Christ, Yatsar

 

Submitted: 
Subject: 

Subject: Re: Mark vs Peniel

BCC: NONE: PRIVATE

 

(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Greetings
Hello, this one will be short. Also, from THIS EMAIL ON, I will NOT keep them private unless you again specify that.
 
Thanks for releasing your stuff to the group!

Don't be concerned re: Mark/Peniel. Even if I thought you were a real fruitcake, I still need to write. Just the writing itself is a clarifying activity, but is much more fruitful with a good sounding board/councilor etc.
Again, thanks.

I'm sure you've guessed by now that there are not too many people who even can talk to me well. I don't mean to overstate the case, its just that I come up with these weird ideas and am trying to sort out the truth. Its getting better.
I thought "I" was the king of Weird Ideas, maybe we will have to share the title.

The emails are a problem -for some reason  a whole bunch of them have come in with a major portion of missing text. I think I'm getting most of the text when I download to my desktop, but - you da computer guy - you figure it out. I guess if I see a large blank space at the bottom of the message, I will assume that cyberspace has struck again. Just send the text - I can figure out who is speaking. Also - If you want to go ahead and open up to BCC that's fine.I haven't gotten any of those communications since we went private.(I can look on the archives - no problem)
If they continue to be an issue, I can always send you a 'second copy' in plain text, if you need. Just ask.

Its late - I'm not going to write further now - The weather map looked bad out your direction - hope all is well
I am actually a little busy at work today (hooray!) so I will keep it short also. We got lots of and huge hail, but everything is ok and no damage.

In Christ, yatsar


With Jesus' love,

Peniel G.G.G.

 

Submitted:  Wed, Apr 21, 2004 11:04 pm
Subject:  resending emails

 

Yatsar,

As you requested, I am going to send you THIS WEEKS emails that I sent to you, in plain text format. I certainly don't want you to miss anything that was in them!

I will also soon send ALL of them to the BCC group AND make them available on the archive - thank you!

The reason you have gotten very little BCCs s that except for yours and mine, and a few private ones to Dave (Verk), there haven't been any. I told you, it is quiet now probably so that I could devote lots of time to you.

With God's Love, Peniel G.G.G.

I will send these emails in order, oldest first, to newest last.

 

Submitted:  Thu, Apr 22, 2004 9:59 am
Subject:  get out the Kleenex box

 

Dearest counselor,

A-ha

 1) JESUS LOVES ME, THIS I KNOW ( but not because the Bible tells me so) He has told me many times and ways and the latest, which I finally understand is through the voice of Peniel over the internet. "Lo, I AM with you always - all ways"

 2) I am beautiful because I AM beautiful
He "told" me this in a song shortly after my mother died. I was listening to Gordon Lightfoot singing " I want to be the one telling you that you're beautiful . . . " This phrase jumped out at me in like bold face type and had not done that before or since. I just didn't realize the eternity in it.
 3) It is OK and right to be gooooooooood without having to attach a certain "religious" definition
 4) I feel the universe laughing

The "come on, open it up a little" has turned into a floodgate and I am stepping into the stream. If there is no bottom, that is OK. If I can't surface, I will just develop gills.

I AM, in Love, Yatsar

 

 

Submitted:  Thu, Apr 22, 2004 11:06 am
Subject: Jesus speaks, He is 'with you'

BCC: AP, Biyn (CJ), DM, JG, RF, SH, TW, Verk (DC), Yatsar (KC), TJ, YW

(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dearest councilor,
(Jesus speaks...)

My darling child and special little flower,


A-ha
I feel you. I feel your opening as a beautiful flower in the rising sun! You ARE the flower. I AM the Son! Respond to my light and fire.


            1) JESUS LOVES ME, THIS I KNOW ( but not because the Bible tells me so) He has told me many times and ways and the latest, which I finally understand is through the voice of Peniel over the internet. "Lo, I AM with you always - all ways"
I am indeed 'with you', always and all ways. I have always been 'with you', but you saw not my footsteps. Now you see. I am 'with you' in more ways than you can yet realize. I am 'with you' like the smell is 'with' the flower, like the rainbow is 'with' the sun, like the heart is 'with' the body. I am 'for you', 'with you', even 'in you'. Now, I wish to make myself known to others, through you.

 

You are a magnificent artist, as I am. As you mold the clay and so deftly modify a lump of dirt into a vessel of great worth and functionality, so I am now molding you into that astounding vessel that has been waiting to emerge. Why have you hidden this most beautiful vessel which is your spirit and personality behind a veil so thick? I know, you were afraid to show your 'all' to others, for fear they might not appreciate it fully but moreso because you did not wish to dazzle them with your brilliance, for fear they might think you vain.

 

That time is past, unveil the greatest that is within you for all to see, and let them adore God through you. Let them see just how much a human can accomplish and to what heights such mere clay can be brought to. For, I am doing this same transformation within your very self.


            2) I am beautiful because I AM beautiful
He "told" me this in a song shortly after my mother died. I was listening to Gordon Lightfoot singing " I want to be the one telling you that you're beautiful . . . " This phrase jumped out at me in like bold face type and had not done that before or since. I just didn't realize the eternity in it.
How often each day do I send you signs, gifts, wonders. How many ways do I reach out my hand to you to tell you, "I love you!" How generous have I been in lavishing my mercy and love upon you and everything around you? I am so pleased when you finally SEE, and hear Me.

            3) It is OK and right to be gooooooooood without having to attach a certain "religious" definition
I am 'with you'. I am 'in you'. Let others see the Good (the God) that is so powerfully present in you, and let them love (adore) you all that they will. Send this pure love back to me by lavishing it onto your husband, and family. I will embrace you and hold you tightly. I will never let you go, unless you flee from me.

 

             4) I feel the universe laughing
That is not laughter you hear, although it may sound like laughter to your ears. That is the chorus song of angels singing and praising what I am doing through you, what you are doing, and what you and I are about to do together (if you continue to follow me as I show you.) As you open up, there is going to be a great resounding and I desire for many to be touched by you and your 'work' (which is far more than you yet realize, but what you are about now will suffice for now.)


         The "come on, open it up a little" has turned into a floodgate and I am stepping into the stream. If there is no bottom, that is OK. If I can't surface, I will just develop gills.
The flood water is my grace, which I so urgently desire to pour out onto and over you. The stream is the cleansing water, which flows from the Father, through the Son, and is the very Holy Spirit himself. Step into us, feel the warmth and power of this life-changing stream.

 

Indeed, there is no bottom, for this stream is infinite in depth, yet, you will be carried along, floating gracefully, for the water of grace 'bears you up' and never overtakes you.

 

You need not gills, for this water is 'living water', and it gives life, not takes it. You ca 'breathe' this water, like in your mother's womb.

 

It can be like a spring within you, flowing up, spilling over, causing all that you touch and that touches you to be cleansed, purified, made whole. You are indeed a master artist of clay, for now. I will make you a master artist of a 'different sort of clay' in time, if you allow. You will take this living water from within you, and use it on the 'common clay' I will bring to you, and together we will create beautiful vessels to contain and carry my love... in time.

For now, show the magnificence that I AM, in you, and through you. Let others love you, and thus, Show them God through your 'work'.


I AM, in Love, Yatsar

 
Indeed, you are, but how much more so: I AM! And, I AM loves you. I have loved you before you knew Me, I will always love you. Let me take care of you and fill your life with joy...
 
OPEN IT UP A LITTLE MORE EACH DAY! (I will fill the openings with all manner of grace, joy, love and beauty.)
 
(Jesus departs...)
 
 
WOW! WOWOWOWOW!! Peniel exclaims!
 
I guess any blessing I would offer after that would be shallow and hollow at best, SO, I pray that what Jesus wants for you is done in full measure,

Peniel G.G.G.

 

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