Submitted: Tue, Jul 04, 2000 12:36 am
Subject:

Hello Peniel;
I have been reading your book and find it interesting.

On pages 142 and 143 you say: "He could be very happy to be able to experience the pain that he does in order to atone for other's sins and to gain merit
for his eternal palace in heaven."

It was my impression that the Bible teaches that only Jesus can atone for the sins of men. Can I indeed atone for my sins and the sins of others?

Regards,
Tom

Submitted: Thu, Apr 01, 2004 1:16 pm
Subject: RE: Book: Oh My God!....

Tom,

Wonderful to hear from you!

Forgive me for being so verbose, but when someone like you allows me to speak about Jesus, love, life, relationships, or something similar that Jesus has instructed me about in order to help others... well, my heart fills with such joy that the words often just pour out of me and seems to never end. Sometimes I have to stop myself and say, "Hey, jerk - he just asked a simple question and you are replying with a three page soap-box dissertation on life and love!" In addition and explanation, when explaining matters of the Spirit, a million words almost will not suffice, a thousand only clouds the issue, and a few merely confuses the truth seeker. I wish we could discuss this face to face, as it would require so far fewer words, but alas, this is what we must work with. I use many words in an attempt to both be clear in my meaning, and to explain how it is that I have come to accept these truth.

I will reply on your email below (your text in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):

I have been reading your book and find it interesting.

On pages 142 and 143 you say: "He could be very happy to be able to experience the pain that he does in order to atone for other's sins and to gain merit for his eternal palace in heaven." It was my impression that the Bible teaches that only Jesus can atone for the sins of men. Can I indeed atone for my sins and the sins of others?

Boy, I could write a whole book on this intriguing paradox that you have proposed here, and Jesus has taught me much about it. Let me start by giving you the short and simple answer, and then, if you need or are interested, you can read on as I attempt to expand on and explain my understanding of this perplexing aspect of theology.

In brief, you are absolutely right, ONLY the CHRIST can fully 'atone' for the sins of man, any individual man, or all men as a group. And, this Jesus indeed did with His incarnation, life here on earth, and especially in His agonizing and unjust crucifixion and death. He laid down His life for us, so that we might live! This is the essence and core of 'atonement'. And, if a man today has had his sins atoned for, then they are all fully atoned for. This, Christ ONLY can and did do, once, for all. The answer therefore to your second question, Can I indeed atone for my sins and the sins of others? would have to be, no. (This presupposes that you are implying that you, and you alone, are involved in this supposed 'atonement'.)

Now that the 'short version' is done.

Even though Christ both was and is man's atonement, we can 'play a part' in the passion of Christ. We can 'offer' our own personal pain, suffering, injuries, etc. to Jesus to be used 'in conjunction' with His own sacrifice. This is what I was referring to on pages 142 and 143. I have an offertory prayer I use which I believe is very useful in this regards. In short, "I offer Thee my prayers, my works, my joys, my happiness, my sorrows and sufferings, loneliness and longings, my love, in fact, all things of this day and the rest of my life. I offer them for my sins, the sins of others, and all things that offend You; in union with Christ's death and resurrection. I offer You all things, for all good, all ways - and always!"

Actually, in my honest opinion, very few people have a clear understanding of the word 'atonement' as it is used throughout the old and new testament. It is one of the only English origin words used in theology and has a convoluted history. It literally means: AT-ONE-Ment (to take two things and make them AS one; a literal "joining" more akin to amalgamation than suspension or mixture.)

The verb "atone", from the adverbial phrase "at one" (M.E. at oon), at first meant to reconcile, or make "at one"; from this it came to denote the action by which such reconciliation was effected, e. g. satisfaction for all offense or an injury. Hence, in Christian theology, the Atonement is the Satisfaction of Christ, whereby the Father and the world are reconciled or made to be at one. (II Cor., v, 19).

I suppose you already know that prior to Jesus' coming, the Jews were instructed in the ritual of 'atonement' in which the high-priest offered a sacrifice to God for the atonement of the Jewish peoples sins, and God accepted this sacrifice, at that time, in atonement for their sins. If you had asked, can one man do anything that will atone for or assist in atoning for either his own or some other(s) person's sins? Then, in that case I would have answered, absolutely!

In history, before Christ, Yom Kipper was the way God instructed the Chosen People to 'atone' for their sins. This ritual, of course, involved two goats, a sacrifice, the Holy of Holies, the Arc of the Covenant, sprinkling of blood, etc. and was clearly laid out as to how, and when it was done. This sacrifice 'atoned' for the sins of all of the Jews for the entire year. This was as God said, and this is how the Jews believed. However, I believe that it only 'presupposes' and also 'pre-atones' for the only TRUE atonement - Christ.

However, just as your question proposes a paradox, so does Yom Kipper. How can the blood of a goat 'atone' (fully and completely, on its own, any by itself) for any man's sins, much less the entire nation of Israel for a full year? In Truth, it can't. (Just as my 'short answer to your question was, 'no'.) It is ONLY because God foreknew and presupposed the True Sacrifice that Jesus made that He applied the Jewish sacrifice - 'in conjunction' with the eventual sacrifice that Christ would make, and THIS was a sacrifice worthy of forgiveness of sins.

God 'allowed' the eventual atonement of Christ to 'effect' the atonement for the Jewish yearly sins, so long as the Yom Kipper was performed. If the Yom Kipper was not done, or was not done properly, then the sins of the people of Israel would NOT have been 'atoned' for that year. (Just as today, although Jesus has fully atoned for my sins, I am still FREE to reject this gift He offers me!)

Now, to the crux of my dissertation regarding atonement:

Just as God allowed the Jewish ritual of Yom Kipper to "ACT IN CONJUNCTION WITH" the eventual sacrifice of Jesus, so to does He allow us the wonderful and fulfilling opportunity to "SHARE IN THE REDEMPTIVE WORK OF CHRIST", by offering our own personal pain and suffering to God to be used :in conjunction with: Jesus sacrifice for the atonement of both my own personal offenses against my loving Father, and other's offenses also.

Yeah, I know, Jesus sacrifice was sufficient and all that was required. Certainly. BUT, the question I pose is not, was Jesus' sacrifice enough? But rather, "Can I somehow 'join' in Christ's redemptive work, in any way?"

If you suppose that no one save the Christ alone is 'allowed' to participate in any way in atoning for sins, well, in the letter of the law, you are correct: for ONLY a sinless man could pay the price for sin. No sinful person could 'pay in full or part' that debt. And, how much less could the blood of some goat help? - YET, this is exactly what God taught and instructed His chosen people to do, and exactly for that purpose - the atonement for their sins.

If He has allowed them, BEFORE Jesus' personal sacrifice in time, to either TRUELY atone for, or more likely, actually only 'assist' in atoning by offering in conjunction with the eventual and ultimate sacrifice; then how much moreso is it appropriate for US, after Christ, fully aware of what He did for us, to do 'whatever we can and are allowed' to join in with Christ in His redemptive work.

 This, my brother, is our co-redemptive work that I was referring to.

Now, if you are REAL BORED and have nothing else to do, let me continue and also provide further references for your amusement / pleasure / instruction. Otherwise, you can stop here.

 Yours in Christ,

--Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Tue, Jul 04, 2000 4:34 am
Subject:

Dear Peniel;

Thank you for your quick and detailed response! I find what you say to be most interesting and convincing. I would like to know the titles of your other books and how may they be obtained. I would also like to know your seminar schedule and cost.

In the book on page 164 you say: "Let's say that I have a dearly held false belief that God cannot sin or lie or do anything wrong." Do you really mean to say: "Let's say that I have a dearly held false belief that God can sin or lie or do anything wrong."?

I appreciate your message and what you are doing. I did a Thesaurus study on the word "holy" and got some surprising results. What would you have to say about God's attribute of "holiness"?

Best Regards,
Tom

Submitted: Thu, Apr 01, 2004 4:37 pm
Subject: RE: Seminars, books, God's Holiness

Tom,

Again, thank you for your kind words. They are a true blessing to me.

In my usual wordiness, I will probably respond to you question regarding "the holiness of God" and this response will likely become a chapter in a later book. But, I did not want to delay the entire response for that, so I shall comment on your current email (verbosely, as usual) and then 'perhaps' detail out my thought on the 'redundant' and 'self-evident' meaning of the 'holiness' of 'God' later.

Thank you for your quick and detailed response! I find what you say to be most interesting and convincing.

I accept this statement at face value, with the reservation that all that I have said and know that is of value is both from and of God. I assume you understand that both what He has taught me in the past (which I merely regurgitate) and that which He does through me currently... is all for God's Greater Glory (G.G.G.) and has nothing to do with me, a common and sinful man.

I, like you, have always found Jesus to be very convincing, not asking me to just accept what He says because of who He is, but rather clearly giving proper evidence and supporting testimony for His proposition. I suspected from your emails that you were already a student of both the bible and Christian Theology, so I tailored my response to you in that direction. There are times when I respond to people in either spoken or written word where I later see that He has put the words into my mind and heart, and again, I have merely been the mouth through which He spoke (hey, if He can speak through a jackass, He can certainly use me...)

 I would like to know the titles of your other books and how may they be obtained. I would also like to know your seminar schedule and cost.

I have to date written around 20 'full' books, and approximately and additional 10 books worth of what I would term: short treaties, seminars, discussions, workshops, etc. Unfortunately, none of the books excepting OMGAYTTM has at this time been published (in God's good time.) Only one other book has been actually entered into electronic format, titled 'The Box', which is a novel dealing with some events of my earlier life (with a spiritual spin on it, naturally.) If you would be interested in reading that, I would be happy to send you an electronic (PDF) copy for your enjoyment.

The 'other' works are all all hand-written (as much of it was written before we had personal computers) and only as time and demand requires and permits do I transfer some of it to the computer.

A novitiate (whom shall remain nameless here for his benefit) has recently been so kind as to offer his services and has been 'scanning' in some of my handwritten works into his scanner, so that we will at least have an 'electronic picture' of the plethora of writings that I have. Alas, he has only done one book (of about 30) to date, and those images are substantially larger as they are Tiff images. I would be quite happy to make ALL of them available to you, if you are interested, although you will have to learn to decipher my scrawling handwriting if you wish to read them at this stage.

Most everything I have written was all originally written as 'teaching aids' for me, outlines, etc that I used in teaching the various seminars and discussion groups that I held over the last 25 years. The specific books came later, but again, handwritten.

I will at least put together for you (and others, I am sure) a LIST OF TITLES (with the novitiate's assistance) and I will send them to you in a future email. If you believe, from the title, that one of them is interesting to you, perhaps we can motivate the novitiate to scan that one in next (or maybe I will scan it in myself for you.)

As far as the Seminars (and Workshops) that I hold, and their schedule: they are now and always will be free of charge (as a matter of a fact, I always supply the food and materials required personally). The reason for this should be self evident: what I was freely given, I am compelled to give freely to others. All that is asked is your time, an open mind, and hopefully a willing and participatory spirit (we like people to participate in the workshop or seminar, not merely 'attend'.)

As of now, with only a few persons in 'casual training' and only one official 'novitiate' under 'serious training', all of the seminars and workshops are being conducted with one-on-one sessions with the novitiate. They happen typically once a week, in the evening, and last about 4 hours each session. Some are structured on a particular subject, but most of the time they run free-lance (as it is a one-on-one) and we discuss whatever is desired or pertinent then. Sometimes we do two a week, like we just did this week. I also typically do them at the novitiate's house and at a time and date convenient for him, but, I am always available to anyone interested (it is merely a question of getting together, as all of them require a personal presence to do.)

Anyone whom could join with us is welcome, but, as we are in central Oklahoma this might prove a daunting task.

I will also get you a list of the various seminars and workshops so that you can decide if any of them are interesting to you. If so, again, perhaps we can scan the written parts in for you, or even use it as a possible email discussion point. (As you have probably surmised, I am quite happy and willing to write voluminous emails for the entertainment and possible benefit of others.) I strongly suspect that the reason Dad is having me do this is for source material for further works. I have no doubts that if I just compiled all of the 'discussion' emails I have had with a half-dozen people over the last few months, it would make a very interesting albeit convoluted treatise on Truth and general spirituality.


In the book on page 164 you say: "Let's say that I have a dearly held false belief that God cannot sin or lie or do anything wrong." Do you really mean to say: "Let's say that I have a dearly held false belief that God can sin or lie or do anything wrong."?

Boy, I can't seem to say anything without a tirade of triviality connected to it... but, you asked for it, so here goes!
My statement in the book was this: "Let's say that I have a dearly held false belief that God cannot sin or lie or do anything wrong."
Let me restate that single sentence here in multiple statements so that you will understand what I intended by it. First, let me clarify that the person I am referring to as 'God' here is what most people would call 'The Creator'. You will probably want for me to clarify or explain some or all of these if you do not agree or see the truth of them yet.

I propose that these are all true statements:
1.) God can sin.
2.) God can lie.
3.) God can do something that is wrong.
4.) God can do anything.
5.) God is not limited in His actions, with the single exception that He cannot change His nature nor cease His existence.
6.) There is no thing (nothing) that man can do that God cannot do.
7.) There is no thing (nothing) that angels or demons or any existent entities can do that God cannot do.
8.) There are Things that are impossible to God.
9.) God generally has a good time, enjoys Himself and those around Him, cares about us personally and individually, and of course holds the entire universe and all things in existence from moment to moment for our benefit and pleasure.
10.) Nothing is impossible to God.
11.) God is infinite, complete, self-sufficient, self-sustaining, holy, loving, all-encompassing, omniscient, omni-present, whole, ureducable, indivisible, unlimited, all-powerful, all-mighty, infinitely great and good, and has within His personal nature the very reason and power OF and FOR both His own existence and existence itself.
12.) What IS impossible to God, is Nothing (here capitalized and underlined to point out that it has special meaning.)


Now, let me propose a spiritual sticky-wicket: "Can God make a weight so heavy that He cannot lift it?" And, for your entertainment (and possible benefit) let me now answer that question and list another series.

These are also all true, I propose:
1.) God can NOT make a weight so heavy that He can't lift it.
2.) God can NOT take a vacation.
3.) God can NOT commit suicide.
4.) God can NOT clear His mind and think about absolutely nothing.
5.) God can NOT make a tree that is not a tree.
6.) God can NOT beat Himself up.
7.) God can NOT make a blue crayon that is not a blue crayon.
8.) God can NOT help but be as He is.
9.) God can NOT change the way He is or the job (work) He does.
10.) God can NOT quit His job.
11.) God can NOT change His job.
12.) God can NOT be fired or fire Himself from His job.

I suspect that you will have further questions, I hope, regarding he above lists. Ask and I will expand, define, explain, exemplify.


I appreciate your message and what you are doing. I did a Thesaurus study on the word "holy" and got some surprising results. What would you have to say about God's attribute of "holiness"?

Jesus, if he gets me started on this one, you will have to physically restrain me! As I said, I will probably do an entire treatise on this one, as it is an important question and I have much regarding it that has never been written down yet. I will hold this till later, perhaps.

A short version:

Proper current definition of "Holy and holy":

1. Belonging to, derived from, or associated with a divine power; sacred.
2. Regarded with or worthy of worship or veneration; revered: a holy book.
3. Living according to a strict or highly moral religious or spiritual system; saintly: a holy person.
4. Specified or set apart for a religious purpose: a holy place.
5. Solemnly undertaken; sacrosanct: a holy pledge.
6. Regarded as deserving special respect or reverence: The pursuit of peace is our holiest quest.

In general, with the assumption that there is but One True God whom is the Only Divine power; then that which is HOLY is that which is set aside or apart for God and / or for His purposes. With this as the 'root' definition, God (the Creator, the One and Only True God) by definition must needs be 'Holy'. And, in actuality, He and He alone is and can be 'Holy'. The best that can be done with whatever is 'not God' (i.e. us, angels, materials, things, etc.) is to 'set them aside for Him and His use' and in this 'petition God to make them holy'.

It is actually a self-proclaiming title, to say, Holy God, when referring to the Creator, for it is in the very nature and definition of Him that He is Holy. Therefore, the 'HOLY' which refers to that aspect of God's nature is properly written "Holy" (with a capital H) as opposed to that which is 'set aside for Him' and is therefore merely holy (with a lowercase h.)

Now that that is explained: God, only, is Holy. God allows us to set aside 'stuff', 'people', 'persons', angels, concepts, ideas, ideals, and a variety of 'others' and at God's acceptance of these 'set-aside' things, they become holy.

There are many gods, and there is Only one God. Only the One God is Holy, and no other gods are holy or Holy. The One God is wholly Holy, but He is not holy.

You asked 'specifically' about the nature of God's Holiness (I capitalized), and if you look at the 'actual' definitions (proper use of) Holy, then we can make some interesting statements as follows:

1a.) God 'belongs to' God.
1b.) God 'derived from' God.
1c.) God 'is associated with' God.
1d.) God is the Divine Power.
1e.) God is sacred.
2a.) God is 'regarded with' worship and veneration.
2b.) God is 'worthy of' worship and veneration.
2c.) God is revered.
3a.) God 'lives according to a strict or highly moral religious or spiritual system'.
3b.) God is 'saintly.'
4a.) God is specified for a religious purpose.
4b.) God is set apart for a religious purpose.
5a.) God solemnly undertakes ALL that He does.
6.) God is regarded as deserving special respect or reverence.

Boy, again, I could take each of these and spend an hour detailing it, but, let it suffice for now just to list them. In addition, there are 'other' derived and non-primary definitions of the words 'holy' and 'Holy' as follows:

1. health, salvation, happiness, fr. h[=a]l whole, well; akin to OS. h?lag, D. & G. heilig, OHG. heilac, Dan. hellig, Sw. helig, Icel. heilagr.  See Whole, hallowed; sacred; reserved from profane or common use;

2. Spiritually whole or sound; of unimpaired innocence and virtue; free from sinful affections; pure in heart; godly; pious; irreproachable; guiltless; acceptable to God.

Again, within these tertiary definitions, there is a wealth of food for thought and further derivations. For example, HOLY was root-oriented from the word "WHOLE" (and I find that one both fascinating and intriguing.) Happiness is also referenced, spiritually 'sound' (I love that one.)

Well, more on this perhaps in a separate treatise!

May Jesus cause His face to shine upon you and fill you with all manner of grace and joy.

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Fri, Apr 02, 2004 6:03 am
Subject: OMGAYTTM

My dear Peniel G.G.G,

Wow! Your responses are fantastic! It would never do for us to meet face to face because our conversation would continue unabated for three days. I do not believe that I could withstand such prolonged joy! I know of  no Christian (save for one or two) who is willing to discuss God for more than five minutes without exhausting their interest and/or knowledge.

My knowledge is very limited but my interest in God is boundless.

First meat and potatoes; then the dessert.

You mention that your handwritten material is being scanned into image format. This, it seems to me, would have limited use and ultimately counterproductive. I should think that converting handwriting into word processing text format would be most desirable. So long as you are the recognized author (and the Author behind the author) would it matter who does it? Is there no one locally interested enough in your work to do this? I offer to help in the process. (I once typed into a word processor the entire book “Embraced By The Light” by Betty Eadie. I could have used a scanner and OCR (optical character recognition) but chose the longer way for better memory retention). Anyway, perhaps you could send something to convert and I will give it a try.

The dessert.

You challenged me to the core with your first twelve proposals. Let us discuss them both individually and collectively. But let me begin by saying this; Who can
understand the triune (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) nature of God? Who can understand the dual (man/God) nature of Jesus? Who really understands the dual (wave/particle) nature of  light? (Is it a wavicle? What is it when no one is looking? a wave, a particle, both, neither?). We are walking on deep water here.

But I digress.

1.) God can sin.

Response: The American Heritage dictionary: sin1 (s¹n) n. 1. A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate. 2. Theology. a. Deliberate
disobedience to the known will of God. b. A condition of estrangement from God resulting from such disobedience. 3. Something regarded as being shameful, deplorable, or utterly wrong.

A.) For God to sin seems logically incompatible with the very definition of the word as stated in 1 and 2 above.
B.) With regard to definition 3, is not God the highest standard against which all else is measured?

Is He not the purest, the best, the greatest, the highest, separate and above all others? How can he sin like man? To sin seems incompatible with his nature.
B.) But yet, .......but yet here is a dilemma. I believe that Jesus was tempted in the desert and also at many other times (get thee behind me Satan, let this cup pass from me but not my will but thine be done, know you not that I can call legions of angels, etc.). I believe that, since he was led into the desert By the Holy Spirit, that it was a real temptation and not a sham.

It was not just for show. So can we say that the appeal was to the physical (man) nature of Jesus? Even so, the effect of yielding is the same, whether man or God (what is the difference if I say to this man take up your bed or your sins are forgiven). If  he had yielded to the temptation we would yet be looking for a Savior. He could then not have been the Sacrificial Lamb without spot or blemish.

Can we say that the very real potential to sin was there yet he looked forward to the high honor that could be his to sit at the right hand of God? Even so for us, for this is not our home but we look forward to a home not constructed with hands.

2.) God can lie.

Response: Some Bible verses that seem to say otherwise: Num 23:19  God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? , Titus 1:2  In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;, Heb 6:18  That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

In addition, what does God have to gain by deception? I believe that God tells the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. He does not reveal everything he
knows but that is something else. I think that when he speaks he cannot lie (but you will remember the occasion when he allowed an angel to lie).

3.)God can do something that is wrong.

Response: Is this a test?  I would offer the same response as those I made to your proposals 1 and 2. I would also offer your own statement number 11 as further refutation (I agree wholeheartedly with your statement 11). Since God had no beginning and he never changes (immutable) there is no character flaw or possibility of change for the worse. I believe God is perfect, his character is flawless, and he is the best that is or can be.

Some, perhaps, would argue that the Bible is full of God’s murderous deeds (the flood, famines, diseases, curses, etc.) but God alone is the Lifegiver and he alone can rightfully take life. This is not wrong. Some could say that Job was the victim of a cruel bet between God and Satan but this experience was and is very instructional for both him and us. Was God’s taking of the life of David and Bathsheba’s son justice from the baby’s point of view? Was taking the lives of Job’s
children fair to them? But I contend that God is just and fair and moral in all that he says and does. In my opinion, he is without error and a perfect Father. Jesus came into the world to do the works of Him that sent him (I love your use of  “I AM” which is an absolutely incredible, outrageous, and  wonderful statement in itself). Jesus did not kill but rather he healed and restored to life. To know the Son is to know the Father. No one comes to the Father except through the Son. Such love!

4.) God can do anything.

Response: I agree so long as it is consistent with his nature and purpose. I find it amazing that God knew how we would be before he created anything or anyone. Yet he went ahead anyway. I am so grateful! I am and shall be eternally grateful for the everlasting life he has given me through the sacrifice of his Son. God has given us free will which, to me, means that God has intentionally limited Himself (just as Jesus did on earth). I agree that, without God’s grace, we are all doomed.
I also agree with all of your second set of twelve statements which are consistent with God’s nature and purpose.

5.) God is not limited in His actions, with the single exception that He cannot change His nature nor cease His existence.

Response: I agree completely.

6.) There is no thing (nothing) that man can do that God cannot do.

Response: I agree so long as it is consistent with his nature and purpose.

7.) There is no thing (nothing) that angels or demons or any existent entities can do that God cannot do.

Response: I agree so long as it is consistent with his nature and purpose.

8.) There are Things that are impossible to God.

Response: Yes, God cannot lie; it is impossible for Him to lie. It is also impossible for God to die, to change, or do anything contrary to his nature or purpose. Otherwise, I do not know what is meant by Things.

9.) God generally has a good time, enjoys Himself and those around Him, cares about us personally and individually, and of course holds the entire universe and all
things in existence from moment to moment for our benefit and pleasure.

Response: I agree completely.

10.) Nothing is impossible to God.

Response: Nothing is impossible to God except that which is inconsistent with his nature and purpose. He will not violate I AM. Otherwise God is all-powerful, good, and the ultimate authority. His spoken word has created the universe and everything in it. Nothing that exists was made with hands or tools.

11.) God is infinite, complete, self-sufficient, self-sustaining, holy, loving, all-encompassing, omniscient, omni-present, whole, unreducible, indivisible, unlimited,
all-powerful, al-mighty, infinitely great and good, and has within His personal nature the very reason and power OF and FOR both His own existence and existence itself.

Response: Yes! Yes! Yes! And we could add many others (perhaps without end); decree, divine, transcendence, eternity, faithfulness, foreknowledge, glory, grace,
immutability, incarnation, justice, knowledge, mercy, patience, solitariness, sovereignty, Spirit, transcendent, trinity, wisdom, word, wrath.

12.) What IS  impossible to God, is Nothing.

Response: Nothing shall be impossible for God (so long as it is consistent with His nature and purpose). He has established and IS all parameters. All things and beings are compared to Him the only TRUE reference. He is the Standard. Man’s point of view is not God’s point of view. Our understanding and reference is currently limited. We do not think like God thinks. Our ways are not His ways.

Wow! You inspire me. But do we disagree? If so, please elaborate.

Yours in Jesus (our mutual Friend),

Tom

Submitted: Fri, Apr 02, 2004 5:23 pm
Subject: Re: OMGAYTTM

Subject: Thanks for the offer to type in the hand-written books, Tom!

BCC List: KC, DC, JG, Biyn, DM, AP, GT

(FOR EVERYONE WHO GETS THIS CC'd to THEM, check out the FTP link listed below. I have put some of the handwritten scanned images of parts of some books up there. I recommend I.T.0056.jpg as a good starting point, if you are interested! NOTE: I will soon move all of these to the book's website: http://www.mcwj.com (My Conversations With Jesus)


My God-send: Tom,

GOD BLESS ME! I have been waiting on someone like your for years!

I am so excited that I can hardly wait for your next email. I suspect that we are about to embark upon a wondrous and fascinating journey and adventure. I am not going to do my normal (verbose) line by line reply to this email (yet) as I just quickly wanted just to tell you of my joy and passion about you and what you propose.

You are absolutely right in everything below, all that you said, all that you proposed. In my detailed dissertation I will rectify the 'apparent' discrepancies between my statements and yours regarding the nature of God.

Also, I bow low before you in humble humility and beg and plead with you, for the Love of GOD, PLEASE HELP ME! I have so many books filled with (I hope) such valuable information that could be spread freely and widely and used to help so many people, yet, there it is on hand-written old and yellowing paper. YES! I accept your offer. The problem is twofold, and we will see how to overcome these.

1.) It is almost unacceptable for me to send let the 'actual' documents, pages, books, material, etc. out of my possession, as I need them for teaching, and I treasure them like my precious children. (I might be willing to send you one of my children, but not one of my books! ;)

2.) I know you are willing now, but you may not know how deep the waters are that you are getting into? I suspect that there are probably about 30 to 50 'volumes' worth of pages (with a volume being a couple of hundred hand-written pages) that we are talking about.

Here is my test proposal, and if acceptable I will get the wheels of this wagon turning very quickly. Look here:

ftp://giveme:files@ftp.courtwatch.com/Customer_Files/Uploads/Peniel

user: giveme
password: files
site: ftp.courtwatch.com
directory: Customer_Files\Uploads\Peniel

This is a random sampling of some material out of various of the books, and the start of the ITS Seminars and workshop series books (some done, some outlines, some not expanded at all yet.)

1.) See if you are able to download, open and 'read' these scanned page images. START WITH I.T.0056.jpg and work forward from there, to start.
2.) If so, see if you can decipher my handwriting (hey, even if you just got close to the words, I will be greatly indebted and of course go over the returned 'electronic' versions with a fine toothed comb to correct, expand, and clarify everything you get typed in.)
3.) See if there are parts of what is up there now (about a hundred scanned pages) that is 'more interesting' or appealing to you to start with, and we will do those FIRST. (i.e. email me and say, BOY, I would sure like to read the workshop on L.O.V.E (Love's Object - Various Expressions) and if it is not already scanned and up at the site, I will have my novitiate scan that next and get it available to you as soon as possible.)
4.) If you find that you are unwilling to transcribe some or all of the material in a given page, section, chapter, book, etc. for either personal reasons, religious reasons, or ANY reasons, just say so and we will have someone else tasked for that. (I would never assist someone in a work if I felt that what was being proposed in the writings was false, misleading, unloving, or harmful to me, my fellow lover's of God, or Dad Himself. I understand that you have this same rite, and I would never question your decision to not assist in something that you may find offensive, untrue, misguiding, etc.)


Email me with your comments, ideas, etc regarding this proposal, for now.

NOTE: I will soon move all of these to the book's website: http://www.mcwj.com (My Conversations With Jesus)


Now, more. You said: Wow! Your responses are fantastic! It would never do for us to meet face to face because our conversation would continue unabated for three days. I do not believe that I could withstand such prolonged joy! I know of  no Christian (save for one or two) who is willing to discuss God for more than five minutes without exhausting their interest and/or knowledge.
I know where you are coming from, exactly! IMAGINE how I felt when I finally fully accepted that it REALLY WAS JESUS, HIMSELF speaking to me, many years ago. Like you, I warned Him about my hunger for Him and knowledge about Him, and desire to know Him, and thirst to get in and ask all of those questions. He lovingly and willingly accepted it all. In my stumbling, bumbling, passionate mind, I REELED! Of course, I started out with my tattered and wrinkled list of 20 questions from my billfold, "What is Love?" (See, how did this book get written on its web page: www.mcwj.com.)

I feel that you are mistaken, however, three days of unabated discussion is not nearly enough to satiate the appetite for Truth, when the well of Truth is finally found. I suspect that if you and I did meet face to face, we would probably have to move in together and have pizza and clothes brought to us ever once in a while, for what Jesus taught me over the first 13 years will take a while to regurgitate. And then, we should discuss all of it, dissect it, extrapolate more from it, etc. What is in OMGAYTTM is the first 20 conversations which took place over the first few days that He and I spoke. (I am VORACIOUS for the Truth.) When I was finally allowed to sit down and write it all down, a few years later, it only took 2 weeks to hand-write what is now the book OMGAYTTM. Since this entire book represents only a couple of days worth our earliest (and best) discussions, IMAGINE what transpired for 13 years! GOD how I wish I had all of it written down, but, that would certainly fill at least several hundred books of just the raw conversations, before the badly-wanted commentary and expansion.

So, I suspect that we would have to spend at least a half a life, maybe more. Fortunately, most get satisfied when they have enough to get them over the hill they are currently facing, and get on with their journey. If you be a true seeker, and your bowl is large enough, I have a virtual cornucopia of meat and potatoes for you, and then, for dessert, a plethora and a bucket more full of fruits and vegetables, cakes and ice cream, ambrosia and honey.

I know that the main reason He gave and taught me so much was my own voracious appetite to love Him more dearly, see Him more clearly, and follow Him more dearly; BUT, I have always hoped that this legacy He has given me might one day be passed on to another, or others. This is why I wrote the first book, and all of the writings I did. God-willing, in time, more of the important and useful information may be written down to be sent out and passed on. This, for years past, has been my prayer and my dream. I think of all the beautiful wisdom Jesus has so patiently imparted to me, and I see my approaching mortality, and I weep for the loss to man this will mean!

*** Perhaps you, my dear brother in Christ, will be a part of that (adding of course your own insightful parts to it.)

The last few years have seen His plans for me beginning to unfurl (after 20 years of my impatiently waiting on God.) He has brought the FIRST  and most useful book (OMGAYTTM) off of my dusty shelf and had it published. He has made it freely available in PDF format to any whom can find it. He has brought (through the book) my first apprentice into his novitiate. He has touched MANY people in the last few months with this book, and introduced them to me. This He has done because He loves me, and He knows of my desire to assist my fellow pilgrims here on earth with the tools and teachings He has heaped upon me.

Now, I am almost brought to tears in finding that He may have sent another to assist in this work, willing to type in from my scrawl some of what has been put down. At least for a time.


My knowledge is very limited but my interest in God is boundless.
Very interesting! It now seems that in my mind my knowledge is 'almost' limitless (GGG) and is only exceeded by my appreciation and continued interest. I offer to you all that you can stand, as time permits.


May Jesus come personally to you and reveal His face (as He did to me) so that He devastate your soul with the same Love that you slay mine with! THEN you will truly thirst for more!

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Fri, Apr 02, 2004 10:34 pm
Subject: Peniel's reply to Tom - statements about the Nature of God

Subject: Peniel's reply to Tom - statements about the Nature of God

BCC List: KC, DC, JG, Biyn, DM, AP, GT, TW

(NOTE: To everyone who receives this on the BCC and CC lists, please read the first page (about the BCC listings) and reply you answers back to me also if you would like to be on the list and be willing to participate also!)

 Tom,

Since it looks like we are going to continue our communications with each other (which thrills me), I would like to ask a favor of you, as I do with all those I share with.

I am currently in communication (like I am with you) with many other persons via email - would you possibly be interested in seeing some of what OTHERS are discussion with me and the questions and answers they get? I could set you up on my BCC (Blind Carbon Copy list) and when I respond to their emails you would get a copy for your reading entertainment / possible benefit?

If one of my spiritual discussion pals (like you) asks me, I can always 'NOT CC' certain emails (if they are too personal or private) OR blurb out all personal references (names, email addresses, etc.) as I do with one or two of my pals.

Most of my pals just let me fully share all that they communicate with me (and on a rare occasion they send an email and at the top say 'DON'T BCC THIS" because it has something in it they want private to me only).

As you well know, I do most of the talking in these sessions, and there is usually very little coming from my pals that is 'too personal' to show others. Heck, most of them are in the same boat as you, and often learn a lot from the 'other's' emails that I BCC them on.

Also, if you don't mind, I would like to begin including your emails into my BCC group (that is, when I respond to you, I will BCC the group that is interested in these spiritual discussions.)

Also, would you be interested in the 'recent' archive for your reading pleasure? (There are probably 40 or 50 emails in the most recent BCC directory.) - Of course, you know me, some of my responses to people go on for 20 pages...

I would be happy to compile a set of them up and send them to you (you can always just skip or trash what does not interest you...) There is typically a single file where I keep all of the chronological communications with one particular individual (ignoring what I am just BCCing him on from others) so that there is a continuing thread to the discussion. There are about 10 different persons in the recent BCC group sharing.

I was just about ready to recompile them anyway, so, just say the word and I will send a copy of them to you?

THREE QUESTIONS:

1.) DO I HAVE YOUR PERMISSION to both SEND YOU BCCs?

2.) And allow others to be BCCd on my responses to you?

3.) Would you like to be sent the ‘recent' archive of everyone's discussions when I compile it?

Remember, I can always block out anything you want blocked (personal) or remove all identity references.

By way of explanation: one of my goals (as a spiritual guide, mystic guru, and pizza chef) has always been to spread the wealth of truth and good information as widely as I can, soas to benefit the most people. You and I have already shared some good stuff that would be helpful to others, and I would like your permission to both start BCCing you on their stuff, AND, to BCC them when I respond to you.

I am going to ask the same thing of most of them in the next few days, and build up the BCC group list some.

I will take what you wrote and comment on it. I will comment on all of it (verbosely, what did you expect) in black (and blue for emphasis) and your text will be in red.
---------------------------------------------------

My dear Peniel G.G.G,

Wow! Your responses are fantastic! It would never do for us to meet face to face because our conversation would continue unabated for three days.

We already discussed our face-to-face meeting possibilities.

..(snip)… Large section removed – previously replied to…

I could have used a scanner and OCR (optical character recognition) but chose the longer way for better memory retention). Anyway, perhaps you could send something to convert and I will give it a try.
We already discussed typing in scanned pages.

The dessert.

I love dessert!

You challenged me to the core with your first twelve proposals. Let us discuss them both individually and collectively. But let me begin by saying this;

Who can understand the triune (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) nature of God? Who can understand the dual (man/God) nature of Jesus? Who really understands the dual (wave/particle) nature of light? (Is it a wavicle? What is it when no one is looking? a wave, a particle, both, neither?). We are walking on deep water here.

Be careful in what you deem ‘unknowable' or ‘unfathomable'? Consider what we know today, that merely 100 years ago was considered ‘beyond man's grasp' or ‘unknowable'.

I chose never to limit God in what He choose to reveal to me, or attempt to reveal to me, on in what way He can assist me (this is the THEME of my book, "The Box" which I would love to send you if you like, in PDF format.)

 Granted, there have been ‘some' things regarding Him that were beyond my grasp at the time presented, but not many. The real first question to ask is: Is THIS thing knowable, comprehensible, and understandable by me? Then, will knowing perhaps assist me to: love Him more dearly, see Him more clearly, and or follow Him more nearly? Then, will He allow me to know it?

Shoot, if you come to the elephant as a blind man from this particular direction, it is amazing what He can show to us. He has often given me more than I could ‘easily' grasp at that particular time, but as my understanding and wisdom increased, I realized that it was precisely some of these ‘challenges' (as you put it) that caused my growth (albeit, sometimes painful growth.)

So, let us pray, Dear God, show us all that You will, and help us to understand.

Let us go to the heart of the matter and consolidate. Disregard all of both of our previous proposed statements for a moment, for I intended to tangle you up in a web of semantics. Let me bring back some of your own comments and we will then drill to the heart of this enigma: What is the Nature of God in reference to His ‘abilities' and ‘inabilities'? (Put another way, what is there that He can do but that most might not understand or accept that He can; and, what is there that He can't do – again that most might not accept or understand? THESE are examples of what I call ‘cliff-hangers' for as you stated, we get deep here. Some are fearful of falling. It is indeed a long way down! But, God, THE VIEW from up here!!)

As you saw me demonstrate, it is possible to drag someone's ‘opinions' (beliefs, decisions, etc.) around in the mud with some proposed cliffhangers. When one approaches the edge of the cliff, the danger is increased, but the view is so much wider and clearer.

(Section excerpted)

B.) But yet, .......but yet here is a dilemma. I believe that Jesus was tempted in the desert and also at many other times (get thee behind me Satan, let this cup pass from me but not my will but thine be done, know you not that I can call legions of angels, etc.). I believe that, since he was led into the desert By the Holy Spirit, that it was a real temptation and not a sham.

It was not just for show. So can we say that the appeal was to the physical (man) nature of Jesus? Even so, the effect of yielding is the same, whether man or God (what is the difference if I say to this man take up your bed or your sins are forgiven). If he had yielded to the temptation we would yet be looking for a Savior. He could then not have been the Sacrificial Lamb without spot or blemish.

Can we say that the very real potential to sin was there yet he looked forward to the high honor that could be his to sit at the right hand of God? Even so for us, for this is not our home but we look forward to a home not constructed with hands.

(Section excerpted)

Indeed, herein you have trod the very edge of the cliff. Since you voluntarily and willing came here to this particular mountain, let us stay a while and examine this mountain cliff in more detail. I suspect that if we get a clear view of what is beyond this particular precipice, it will then show you many more mountains below it that will now be clearer for you.

You said: I believe that, since he was led into the desert By the Holy Spirit, that it was a real temptation and not a sham. This is indeed the crux of this ‘apparent' paradox.

First point: I agree complete with you assessment of Jesus' situation. Think about it, if it were ‘impossible' for Him to have sinned, then the temptation was a sham, a show, and a fake. He was just play-acting, for He was ‘incapable' of sinning. I also agree with your assessment of the results if He ‘had' sinned.

Next point: I say this, Jesus WAS capable of sinning. He COULD have. It was POSSIBLE. He HAD THE POWER. He did NOT FAKE this ‘tempting'. If there were no real danger (or possibility) of Him ‘sinning' (offending God) then the agony, the trial in the desert, the comforting by the angels – all a sham, a fake, a ruse, a LIE. I do NOT accept this.

Next point: although He COULD HAVE sinned, He CHOSE NOT TO! He had the power, and did NOT exercise it. Because He could have and did not, this makes His temptation REAL, valuable, worthy as a sacrifice.

Quick question: Are Jesus and The Father ONE?

Clarification, expansion: Do They have the same Nature? Are They exactly alike? Does one of Them have some powers or abilities or attributes or characteristics that the other one lacks? Are they different in any way?

Next point: If They are One (as I propose they are) in NATURE, then we can extrapolate thus: whatever the Son is like, so the Father is like. (When you have seen Me, you have seen the Father.)

From this extrapolation, we then arrive here: Jesus could sin (otherwise the temptation was a farce.) Jesus and God (the Father) are One. What Jesus can do, the Father can do.

CONCLUSION: The Father (God) CAN SIN.

Apologies: Of course, like Jesus, He chose NOT to sin, ever. But, He has he power. Where do you think the ‘power to sin' came from, did Satan (Lucifer) invent it? Is this a power that Satan and we humans and the demons have that God lacks? Are there things that we can do that God cannot?

Again, I admit that in knowing this about the Nature of God, apparent paradoxes arise. However, these are NOT insurmountable, nor incomprehensible to we mortals.

Paradox 2: God can sin. But, how can God ‘offend himself'? (The root definition of what a sin is, an offense to God.) He could NOT. For as you so amply demonstrated, it is not in His NATURE.

Digression: OK, how do we amend this equation? There is more than one definition of sin. Sin is NOT ONLY ‘what offends God', although it is mostly and mainly that. Sin is also: Something regarded as being shameful, deplorable, or utterly wrong. This is exactly what it sounds like Jesus was tempted to do, something shameful (bow down and worship me, and I will give you all of the kingdoms of the world.) This final temptation would probably also qualify as ‘deplorable' and possibly ‘utterly wrong'. At least, utterly wrong considering who it was that was ‘considering' it. Also, if Jesus never even ‘considered' what He was tempted with, this also would have produced a sham. He was not slow to decide, BUT, He MUST have ‘considered' Satan's proposition, and then, wisely decided, 'No!"

Untangling: The web is weaved, as usual, with SEMANTICS! Those whom do not use words properly will get caught in their words. Unlike the Cheshire cat, we cannot make words mean whatever we choose for them to mean, we must use them wisely, and as they are intended.

Peniel says, 'If a man cannot say what he means, he will not mean what he says." This leads to a powerful requirement for a clear understanding of ‘key' words when dealing with spiritual matters, especially! Hence, Peniel has a well-worn dictionary.

The dilemma is the difference between 'CAN'T" and 'DOESN'T". Can't implies the lack of power, capability, capacity, or ability. 'DOESN'T" implies (and must needs infer) ability, but willful choice not to.

I 'CAN" hit my wife over the head with a rubber chicken. I (wisely) chose not to. I chose not to today, yesterday, tomorrow and forever. I won't.

I 'CAN'T" grow to 100 feet tall by my will. Even if I ‘choose' to, I am unable. I won't.

Many people swap the words 'can't" and 'won't" as if they were as interchangeable as their socks, but, there is always a correct choice. If one is capable, one 'can" and therefore 'won't". If one is incapable, one 'can't" and any choice regarding 'won't" or 'will" is rendered moot, and in truth, an incorrect statement of reality (what is).

I can't grow to be 100 feet tall (CAN BE SAID AS) I won't grow to be 100 feet tall. This appears correct, but, is a variation of the word ‘won't', here not implying will or choice, but rather future negation (that won't happen.)

To be clear, one must always specify the ability and choice if applicable, thus:

I could hit my wife over the head with a rubber chicken, but I choose not to. I won't.

Jesus could sin, but He chose not to. He won't.

God can sin, but He chooses not to. He won't.

With semantics unindicated, it is quite correct to say, 'God can not sin" as history has shown that He never did, and logic dictates that due to His nature, He never will. This is the same semantical variation as me saying, 'I won't grow to be 100 feet tall." It may appear that by this statement I have implied that I have the ‘ability' to do this, but not in actuality.

Yes, I know there are many references to and containing the words 'God can not sin" and semantically I agree, He never will, never did, and won't. When can and will get interchanged semantically, paradoxes apparently ‘appear'.

You also stated: Nothing is impossible to God except that which is inconsistent with his nature and purpose. He will not violate I AM.

In this statement, you summarize for me all of the ‘can' and ‘can't' of God's nature. He will not violate I AM, is exactly why He ‘cannot commit suicide', take a vacation, etc.

…(big snip)… All covered.

Response: Nothing shall be impossible for God (so long as it is consistent with His nature and purpose). He has established and IS all parameters. All things and beings are compared to Him the only TRUE reference. He is the Standard. Man's point of view is not God's point of view. Our understanding and reference is currently limited. We do not think like God thinks. Our ways are not His ways.

Indeed, BUT, man's point of view CAN come closer than it currently is to God's point of view. Our understanding and reference are currently limited, BUT, this does not mean that we should not seek and strive for a higher truth, a deeper understanding, and a broader perspective. We do not think like God thinks, BUT, we do think! By God, let us think some more! Let us think of any way to expand our understanding of God. Let us ask Him to deepen our awareness and assist in our growth in both spirit and knowledge. For knowledge can lead to understanding, and understanding can lead to wisdom, and wisdom can bring us closer to loving Him more dearly, following Him more nearly, and seeing Him more clearly… and this indeed is a noble undertaking.

Wow! You inspire me. But do we disagree? If so, please elaborate.

You complete me. You draw from me much that I was taught, but too lazy to have written down. Please, CONTINUE!

I honestly think, semantics aside and disregarded, we believe very much the same. Please understand that sometimes, for our growth, it is necessary to endure a little pain. In order to see things from a new perspective it is sometimes useful to SPIN someone around in circles for a short while. I hope neither of us got too dizzy.

Yours in Jesus (our mutual Friend),
and Brother!

Tom
Perhaps Jesus will one day reveal your ‘True name' as He has done for many others, like myself.

Now, let me proceed to propose more paradoxical issues for your consideration:

1.) What is God's ‘job'?

2.) What is God's relationship with we human beings during our mortal life?

3.) What does God want from us?

4.) Who was this Jesus guy?

5.) What kind of man was He?

6.) How does He and His life impact and / or effect our lives and us?

Also, if you are really bored and want to delve deeper into the abyss:

Let us do a little ‘study' on one bible aspect that I find intriguing carefully consider this:

Genesis 2:15 And Jehovah Elohim took Man, and put him into the garden of Eden, to till it and to guard it. And Jehovah Elohim commanded Man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou shalt freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest of it thou shalt certainly die.

2:18 And Jehovah Elohim said, It is not good that Man should be alone; I will make him a helpmate, his like. And out of the ground Jehovah Elohim had formed every animal of the field and all fowl of the heavens, and brought [them] to Man, to see what he would call them; and whatever Man called each living soul, that was its name. And Man gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the heavens, and to every beast of the field; but as for Adam, he found no helpmate, his like.

2:21 And Jehovah Elohim caused a deep sleep to fall upon Man; and he slept. And he took one of his ribs and closed up flesh in its stead. And Jehovah Elohim built the rib that he had taken from Man into a woman; and brought her to Man. And Man said, This time it is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh: this shall be called Woman, because this was taken out of a man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and cleave to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

2:25 And they were both naked, Man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Beautiful!

Questions:

1.) Is this ‘true'?

2.) Is this ‘historically accurate'?

3.) Did God give man a ‘job' in the garden?

4.) If God made man, and the garden, and his current situation, why does God say that there is something ‘NOT GOOD' about this present situation?

5.) What does God say He will do to ‘remedy' the un-good situation?

6.) Now God makes the animals and brings them to Adam. What was God's motivation for making all of these animals?

7.) What does this passage mean: 'but as for Adam, he found no helpmate, his like. '

8.) Since the animals did not remedy the un-good situation, what then did God do?

9.) What would have happened if Adam had said, 'Hey, a lizard! Now, that is my kind of helpmate! I will take this lizard as my helpmate." Would Eve had been created in this situation?

10.) Did God ‘originally' intend to create Eve (sure, He foreknew, BUT, what does the story imply about His original choice)?

11.) Why is Adam willing to accept Eve, but unwilling to accept the lizard?

12.) If they were naked, why were they not ‘ashamed'? (Why even put this verse in there, what does it tell us)?

OK, now you have some more stuff to chew on, if you desire!

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Fri, Apr 02, 2004 10:44 pm
Subject: Some references for Tom from Peniel regarding 'holiness'

BCC List: KC, DC, JG, Biyn, DM, AP, GT

Tom,

I just wanted to send you some good references I found for your edification and entertainment.

--Peniel G.G.G. 

======================================================

 Holy and holy:

The word holy has two meanings: (1) Intrinsically holy. Only God is intrinsically holy. (2) A mundane object or person who is set aside for a holy purpose. In this sense, Christians are holy (saints), as are material objects that are dedicated to religious use.

The word 'holy' signifies being set apart for a religious or divine use or purpose. (e.g. a holy building is used for religious purposes; a holy man devotes his time to religious service and work).

(hoh-lee) Perfect; pure; separate; given to God's service. Above all else, God is holy. Everything associated with God is holy. Psalm 29:2 Isaiah 29:23 2

Belonging to or coming from God.

Special to God.

The next attribute is God's holiness. Exod xv ii. 'Glorious in holiness.' Holiness is the most sparkling jewel of his crown; it is the name by which God is known. Psa cxi 9. 'Holy and reverend is his name.' He is 'the holy One.' Job vi 10. Seraphims cry, 'Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts, the whole earth is full of his glory.' Isa vi 3. His power makes him mighty, his holiness makes him glorious. God's holiness consists in his perfect love of righteousness, and abhorrence of evil, and cannot look on iniquity.' Hab I 13.
I. God is holy intrinsically. He is holy in his nature; his very being is made up of holiness, as light is of the essence of the sun. He is holy in his Word. The Word bears a stamp of his holiness upon it, as the wax bears an impression of the seal. 'Thy Word is very pure.' Psa cxix 140. It is compared to silver refined seven times. Psa xii 6. Every line in the Word breathes sanctity, it encourages nothing but holiness. God is holy in his operations. All he does is holy; he cannot act but like himself; he can no more do an unrighteous action than the sun can darken. 'The Lord is holy in all his works,' Psa cxlv 17.
II. God is holy primarily. He is the original and pattern of holiness. Holiness began with him who is the Ancient of Days.
III. God is holy efficiently. He is the cause of all that is holiness in others. 'Every good and perfect gift comes from above.' James i 17. He made the angels holy. He infused all holiness into Christ's human nature. All the holiness we have is but a crystal stream from this fountain. We borrow all our holiness from God. As the lights of the sanctuary were lighted from the middle lamp, so all the holiness of others is a lamp lighted from heaven. 'I am the Lord which sanctify you.' Lev xx 8. God is not only a pattern of holiness, but he is a principle of holiness: his spring feeds all our cisterns, he drops his holy oil of grace upon us.
IV. God is holy transcendently. 'There is none holy as the Lord.' I Sam ii 2. No angel in heaven can take the just dimensions of God's holiness. The highest seraphim is too low of stature to measure these pyramids; holiness in God is far above holiness in saints or angels.
[1] It is above holiness in saints. It is a pure holiness. The saints' holiness is like gold in the ore, imperfect; their humility is stained with pride; he that has most faith needs pray, 'Lord, help my unbelief:' but the holiness of God is pure, like wine from the grape; it has not the least dash or tincture of impurity mixed with it. It is a more unchangeable holiness. Though the saints cannot lose the habit of holiness (for the seed of God remains), yet they may lose some degrees of their holiness. 'Thou hast left thy first love.' Rev ii 4. Grace cannot die, yet the flame of it may go out. Holiness in the saints is subject to ebbing, but holiness in God is unchangeable; he never lost a drop of his holiness; as he cannot have more holiness, because he is perfectly holy; so he cannot have less holiness, because he is unchangeably holy.
[2] The holiness of God is above the holiness of angels. Holiness in the angels is only a quality, which may be lost, as we see in the fallen angels; but holiness in God is his essence, he is all over holy, and he can as well lose his Godhead as his holiness.
But is he not privy to all the sins of men? flow can he behold their impurities, and not be defiled?
God sees all the sins of men, but is no more defiled with them than the sun is defiled with the vapours that rise from the earth. God sees sin, not as a patron to approve it, but as a judge to punish it.
Use one: Is God so infinitely holy? Then see how unlike to God sin is. Sin is an unclean thing, it is hyperbolically evil. Rom i 23. It is called an abomination. Deut vii 25. God has no mixture of evil in him; sin has no mixture of good, it is the spirit and quintessence of evil; it turns good into evil; it has deflowered the virgin soul, made it red with guilt, and black with filth; it is called the accursed thing. Josh vii 11. No wonder, therefore, that God hates sin, being so unlike to him, nay. so contrary to him: it strikes at his holiness; it does all it can to spite God; if sin could help it, God should be God no longer.
Use two: Is God the Holy One, and is holiness his glory? How impious are they that are haters of holiness! As the vulture hates perfumes, so they hate the sweet perfume of holiness in the saints; their hearts rise against holiness; as a man's stomach at a dish he has an antipathy against. There is not a greater sign of a person devoted to hell, than to hate one for the thing wherein he is most like God. Others are despisers of holiness. They despise the glory of the Godhead. 'Glorious in holiness.' The despising holiness is seen in deriding it; and is it not sad that men should deride that which should save them? Sure that patient will die who derides the physic. Deriding the grace of the Spirit comes near to despising the Spirit of grace. Scoffing Ishmael was cast out of Abraham's house. Gen xxi 9. Such as scoff at holiness shall be cast out of heaven.
Use three: Is God so infinitely holy? Then let us endeavour to imitate God in holiness. 'Be ye holy, for I am holy.' 1 Pet i i6. There is a twofold holiness; a holiness of equality, and a holiness of similitude. A holiness of equality no man or angel can reach to. Who can be equally holy with God? Who can parallel him in sanctity? But there is a holiness of similitude, and that we must aspire after, to have some analogy and resemblance of God's holiness in us, to be as like him in holiness as we can. Though a taper dots not give so much light as the sun, yet it resembles it. We must imitate God in holiness.
If we must be like God in holiness, wherein does our holiness consist?
In two things. In our suitableness to God's nature, and in our subjection to his will.
Our holiness consists in our suitableness to the nature of God. Hence the saints are said to partake of the divine nature, which is not partaking of his essence, but his image. 2 Pet i 4. Herein is the saints' holiness, when they are the lively pictures of God. They bear the image of God's meekness, mercifulness, heavenliness; they are of the same judgment with God, of he same disposition; they love what he loves, and hate what he hates.
Our holiness consists also in our subjection to the will of God. As God's nature is the pattern of holiness, so his will is the rule of holiness. It is our holiness when we do his will, Acts xiii 22; when we bear his will, Micah vii 9; when what he inflicts wisely we suffer willingly. Our great care should be, to be like God in holiness. Our holiness should be qualified as God's; as his is a real holiness, ours should be. 'Righteousness and true holiness.' Eph iv 24. It should not be the paint of holiness, but the life; it should not be like the Egyptian temples. beautified without merely. but like Solomon's temple, gold within, Psa xlv 13. 'The king's daughter is all glorious within.' That I may press you to resemble God in holiness consider,
How illustrious every holy person is. He is a fair glass in which some of the beams of God's holiness shine forth. We read that Aaron put on his garments for glory and beauty. Exod xxviii 2. when we wear the embroidered garment of holiness, it is for glory and beauty. A good Christian is ruddy, being sprinkled with Christ's blood; and white, being adorned with holiness. As the diamond to a ring, so is holiness to the soul; that, as Chrysostom says, they that oppose it cannot but admire it.
(2.) It is the great design God carries on in the world, to make a people like himself in holiness. What are all the showers of ordinances for, but to rain down righteousness upon us, and make us holy? What are the promises for, but to encourage holiness? What is the sending of the Spirit into the world for, but to anoint us with the holy unction? I John ii 20. What are all afflictions for, but to make us partakers of God's holiness? Heb xii 10. What are mercies for, but loadstones to draw us to holiness? What is the end of Christ's dying, but that his blood might wash away our unholiness? 'Who gave himself for us, to purify unto himself a peculiar people.' Titus ii 14. So that if we are not holy, we cross God's great design in the world.
(3.) Our holiness draws God's heart to us. Holiness is God's image; and God cannot choose but love his image where he sees it. A king loves to see his effigies upon a piece of coin. 'Thou lovest righteousness. Psa xlv 7. And where does righteousness grow, but in a holy heart? Isa lxii 4. 'Thou shalt be called Hephzibah, for the Lord delighteth in thee.' It was her holiness that drew God's love to her. 'They shall call them the holy people.' Verse 12. God values not any by their high birth, but their holiness.
(4.) Holiness is the only thing that distinguishes us from the reprobate part of the world. God's people have his seal upon them. 'The foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, the Lord knoweth them that are his. And let all that name the name of Christ depart from iniquity. '2 Tim ii 19. The people of God are sealed with a double seal. Election, 'The Lord knows who are his:' and Sanctification, 'Let every one depart from iniquity.' As a nobleman is distinguished from another by his silver star; as a virtuous woman is distinguished from a harlot by her chastity; so holiness distinguishes between the two seeds. All that are of God have Christ for their captain, and holiness is the white colour they wear. Heb ii 10.
(5.) Holiness is our honour. Holiness and honour are put together. I Thess iv 4. Dignity goes along with sanctification. 'He hath washed us from our sins in his blood, and hath made us kings unto God.' Rev i s. When we are washed and made holy, then we are kings and priests to God. The saints are called vessels of honour; they are called jewels, for the sparkling of their holiness, because filled with wine of the Spirit. This makes them earthly angels.
(6.) Holiness gives us boldness with God. 'Thou shalt put away iniquity far from thy tabernacles, and shalt lift up thy face unto God.' Job xxii 23, 26. Lifting up the face is an emblem of boldness. Nothing can make us so ashamed to go to God as sin. A wicked man in prayer may lift up his hands, but he cannot lift up his face. When Adam had lost his holiness, he lost his confidence; he hid himself. But the holy person goes to God a child to its father; his conscience does not upbraid him with allowing any sin, therefore he can go boldly to the throne of grace, and have mercy to help in time of need. Heb iv i6.
(7.) Holiness gives peace. Sin raises a storm in the conscience; ubi peccatum ibi procella [where there is sin, there is tumult]. 'There is no peace to the wicked.' Isa lvii 21. Righteousness and peace are put together. Holiness is the root which bears this sweet fruit of peace; righteousness and peace kiss each other.
(8.) Holiness leads to heaven. It is the King of heaven's highway. 'An highway shall be there, and it shall he called the way of holiness.' Isa xxxv 8. At Rome there were temples of virtue and honour, all were to go through the temple of virtue to the temple of honour; so we must go through the temple of holiness to the temple of heaven. Glory begins in virtue. 'Who hath called us to glory and virtue.' 2 Pet I 3. Happiness is nothing else but the quintessence of holiness; holiness is glory militant, and happiness holiness triumphant.
What shalt we do to resemble God in holiness?
Have recourse to Christ's blood by faith. This is the lavacrum animae [the washing of the soul]. Legal purifications were types and emblems of it. 1 John i 7. The Word is a glass to show us our spots, and Christ's blood is a fountain to wash them away.
(2.) Pray for a holy heart. 'Create in me a clean heart of God.' Psa li 10. Lay thy heart before the Lord, and say, Lord my heart is full of leprosy; it defiles all it touches; Lord, I am not fit to live with such a heart for I cannot honour thee; nor die with such heart; for I cannot see thee. Oh create in me a clean heart; send thy Spirit into me, to refine and purify me, that I may be a temple fit for thee the holy God to inhabit.
(3.) Walk with them that are holy. 'He that walketh with the wise shall be wise.' Prov xiii 20. Be among the spices and you will smell of them. Association begets assimilation. Nothing has a greater power and energy to effect holiness than the communion of the saints

Isaiah 6:3 And they were calling to one another: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory."
Joshua 24:19 Joshua said to the people, "You are not able to serve the LORD. He is a holy God; he is a jealous God. He will not forgive your rebellion and your sins."
Psalms 22:3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the praise of Israel.
Psalms 99:5, 9 [5] Exalt the LORD our God and worship at his footstool; he is holy. [9] Exalt the LORD our God and worship at his holy mountain, for the LORD our God is holy.
Isaiah 5:16 But the LORD Almighty will be exalted by his justice, and the holy God will show himself holy by his righteousness.
John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name -- the name you gave me -- so that they may be one as we are one.
1 Peter 1:15-16 [15] But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; [16] for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."
   God is called the Holy One of Israel about thirty times in Isaiah, and is so called also in Jeremiah and Ezekiel, and elsewhere.
   In the New Testament, God the Son is spoken of as the holy one.
1 John 2:20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
   The third person of the Trinity is constantly spoken of as the Holy Spirit. Holiness is the essential moral nature of God.
Isaiah 57:15 For this is what the high and lofty One says -- he who lives forever, whose name is Holy: "I live in a high and holy place, but also with him who is contrite and lowly in spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly and to revive the heart of the contrite."
   With reference to the Holy Spirit, the word Holy is both His name and a description of His character.
080.020.000       Torrey: p37, T:II
Topic 20:   What does Holy mean?
080.020.010       Torrey: p37, T:II, P:2
POINT 10:   Holy means free from all defilement, pure. "God is holy" means "God is absolutely pure."
Leviticus 11:43-45 [43] Do not defile yourselves by any of these creatures. Do not make yourselves unclean by means of them or be made unclean by them. [44] I am the LORD your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. Do not make yourselves unclean by any creature that moves about on the ground. [45] I am the LORD who brought you up out of Egypt to be your God; therefore be holy, because I am holy.
Deuteronomy 23:14 For the LORD your God moves about in your camp to protect you and to deliver your enemies to you. Your camp must be holy, so that he will not see among you anything indecent and turn away from you.
   Note the context of this verse.
1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
080.022.000       Torrey: p37, T:II
Topic 22:   God's rituals and actions remind us of His holiness.
080.022.012       Torrey: p37, T:II, P:2
POINT 12:   Many of the Old Testament rituals were specified by God specifically to remind us of His holiness.
    The truth that God is Holy is the fundamental truth of the Bible, of the Old Testament and the New Testament, of the Jewish Religion and the Christian Religion. 080.022.014       Torrey: p37, T:II, P:2
POINT 14:   Some Old Testament punishments were to emphasize God's Holiness.
   -   the punishment of Uzziah in 2 Chronicles 26:16- 26    -   the doom of Korah, Dathan and Abiram in Numbers 16:1-33    -   the destruction of Nadab and Abihu in Leviticus 10:1-3
080.030.000       Torrey: p37, T:III
Topic 30:   How the Holiness of God is manifested.
080.030.002       Torrey: no
POINT 2:   Absolute power has not corrupted God.
   There is an old saying that "Absolute power corrupts absolutely." God has absolute power. He has the ability to do anything without fear of reprisal. He could force us to love Him unconditionally; He could force us to do anything He wants and we would be powerless to resist. His holiness is demonstrated by the fact that He gives to each person that which the person deserves -- heavenly rewards to the righteous and eternal punishment to the wicked.
Job 34:11-12 [11] He repays a man for what he has done; he brings upon him what his conduct deserves. [12] It is unthinkable that God would do wrong, that the Almighty would pervert justice.
080.030.004       Torrey: no
POINT 4:   God has not gotten 'judge-itis'.
   In human legal systems, a judge has to keep order in his court. One of the ways to do this is by punishing people for contempt of court. Also, few questions are clear-cut. On most issues, a judge has a lot of discretion; regardless of which way he decides, no one can say he is clearly wrong. Hence, even lawyers, litigants, and witnesses who cannot stand the sight of the judge will usually pretend to honor and respect him, in the hope that he will not cause problems for them.
   Because he holds a lot of power, has a lot of prestige, and few people will speak out against him, it is not uncommon for a judge to become very haughty, arrogant, and condescending; he also develops a sense that he is always right and often becomes quite angry when challenged, even if he is obviously wrong. (By no means is this limited to male judges.) One lawyer referred to this combination of arrogance, condescension, etc., as 'judge-itis'.
   God's holiness is manifested in that even though He has power, prestige, and authority and He is always right, He has not let His position affect His sense of justice or cloud His judgment.
080.030.006       Torrey: no
POINT 6:   God doesn't 'plea bargain'. He doesn't 'make deals'. He can't be 'bought' or bribed.
   In the American legal system, a criminal accused of a serious crime usually can make a 'plea bargain' with the prosecutor. For instance, a criminal is charged with two counts each of aggravated assault, armed robbery, kidnapping, and rape, crimes for which he could be imprisoned for life. He agrees to plead guilty to one count of aggravated assault with a five-year sentence, and the prosecutor agrees to drop the other charges.
   God doesn't plea bargain. He doesn't 'cut deals'. He can't be 'bought' or bribed with large donations. He requires genuine repentance of all sins and a sincere desire to try to follow His holy ways.
080.030.010       Torrey: p38, T:III, P:3
POINT 10:   The Holiness of God manifests itself in a hatred of sin.
Habakkuk 1:13 Your eyes are too pure to look on evil; you cannot tolerate wrong. Why then do you tolerate the treacherous? Why are you silent while the wicked swallow up those more righteous than themselves?
Genesis 6:5-6 [5] The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. [6] The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.
Deuteronomy 25:16 For the LORD your God detests anyone who does these things, anyone who deals dishonestly.
Proverbs 15:9 The LORD detests the way of the wicked but he loves those who pursue righteousness.
Proverbs 15:26 The LORD detests the thoughts of the wicked, but those of the pure are pleasing to him.
Proverbs 6:16-19 [16] There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: [17] haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, [18] a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, [19] a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.
Galatians 5:19-21 [19] The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; [20] idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions [21] and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 [9] Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders [10] nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 9 has caused translators some problems. The word "offenders" does not occur in the Greek text. According to Ken Barker, General Editor of the NIV translation committee, the NIV translators added it to clarify a distinction that began in the 1970's -- the idea that a person is a "homosexual" because of homosexual "orientation" rather than homosexual activity. Other translations translate "male prostitutes" as "sodomites"
   It must be pointed out that God hates homosexual activity. The sexual orientation of the participants is irrelevant. Of course, it is possible for two heterosexuals of the same gender to engage in sexual activity together. God hates the acts, not the mere feelings or 'sexual orientation':
Leviticus 18:22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. In the New American Bible "their blood ..." is rendered as: they have forfeited their lives.
   It should also be noted that male prostitutes generally have male customers, not female customers. Hence, in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 "male prostitutes" is also discussing homosexuality; it is not saying that God only hates prostitution if the prostitute is male.
      Confer Deuteronomy 23:18 You must not bring the earnings of a female prostitute or of a male prostitute into the house of the LORD your God to pay any vow, because the LORD your God detests them both.
080.030.020       Torrey: p38, T:III, P:4
POINT 20:   The Holiness of God manifests itself in delight in righteousness and holiness.
Proverbs 15:9 The LORD detests the way of the wicked but he loves those who pursue righteousness.
Leviticus 19:2 "Speak to the entire assembly of Israel and say to them: 'Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy.'
Leviticus 20:26 You are to be holy to me because I, the LORD, am holy, and I have set you apart from the nations to be my own.
080.030.030       Torrey: p38, T:III, P:5
POINT 30:   The Holiness of God manifests itself in His never doing wickedness or iniquity.
Job 34:10, 12 [10] So listen to me, you men of understanding. Far be it from God to do evil, from the Almighty to do wrong. [12] It is unthinkable that God would do wrong, that the Almighty would pervert justice.
080.030.032       Torrey: no
POINT 32:   'Wickedness' and 'iniquity' mean unfair actions. A just punishment is not 'wicked' or 'inequitable', no matter how harsh the punishment. God punishes the wicked who do not repent and seek His forgiveness.
Job 34:11 He repays a man for what he has done; he brings upon him what his conduct deserves.
Job 4:8-9 [8] As I have observed, those who plow evil and those who sow trouble reap it. [9] At the breath of God they are destroyed; at the blast of his anger they perish.
080.030.034       Torrey: no
POINT 34:   A fair divine being has no choice but to punish the unrepentant sinner. It would be unjust, it would be wicked, for God to give the wicked person the same reward He gives to the righteous.
Job 34:11-12 [11] He repays a man for what he has done; he brings upon him what his conduct deserves. [12] It is unthinkable that God would do wrong, that the Almighty would pervert justice.

=== DISCUSSION ===
   A heresy that is becoming increasingly popular is Universalism. Universalism claims that because "God is love" He will save everyone, even the unrepentant sinner. An easy response to this is "Do you mean to say that God will let Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and other mass murderers into Heaven?" Some Universalists respond "Well, ... maybe He won't accept a few of the worst sinners, but He'll take everybody else." For proof this is untrue see Point 10, "The Holiness of God manifests itself in a hatred of sin".
   As Gary R. Habermas and J. P. Moreland say in Immortality: The Other Side of Death, "... It would be unjust to allow evil to go unpunished and to reward evil with good, even when the good was not sought in a genuine, informed way." p. 164.
080.030.036       Torrey: no
POINT 36:   God's Holiness is manifested in that even though He is omnipotent, answers to no one, and has no fear of reprisal or punishment, He treats all men equal, by not playing favorites.
Romans 2:6, 11 [6] God "will give to each person according to what he has done." [11] For God does not show favoritism.
080.030.038       Torrey: no
POINT 38:   God holds Himself to the same standards as He holds those He created. No one gave Him authority to run things. It would be unjust if He didn't hold everyone, including Himself, to a single standard.
Job 34:11-12 [11] He repays a man for what he has done; he brings upon him what his conduct deserves. [12] It is unthinkable that God would do wrong, that the Almighty would pervert justice.
080.030.040       Torrey: p38, T:III, P:6
POINT 40:   The Holiness of God is manifested in the separation of the sinner from God.
Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
080.030.042       Torrey: p38, T:III, P:6
POINT 42:   Atonement is necessary for a sinner to approach God.
Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Hebrews 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
   All approach to God is on the ground of shed blood. In the strongest way, the holiness of God demands atonement. Any doctrine which holds that atonement is required only for governmental expediency does not go to the root of the matter. Any belief that atonement is required only because God requires man to have a strong motive also does not go to the root of the matter. The first and fundamental reason why "without shedding of blood there is no remission" is because God is Holy and sin must be covered before there can be fellowship between God and the sinner.
080.030.044       Torrey: p38, T:III, P:6
POINT 44:   God will ignore a sinner's prayers until the sinner repents.
Isaiah 59:1-2 [1] Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor his ear too dull to hear. [2] But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
080.030.050       Torrey: p39, T:III, P:7
POINT 50:   The Holiness of God manifests itself in the punishment of the sinner.
Exodus 34:6-7 [6] And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, "The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, [7] maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation."
Genesis 6:5-7 [5] The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. [6] The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. [7] So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth -- men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air -- for I am grieved that I have made them."
Psalms 5:4-6 [4] You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil; with you the wicked cannot dwell. [5] The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; you hate all who do wrong. [6] You destroy those who tell lies; bloodthirsty and deceitful men the LORD abhors.
   God does not punish the sinner merely because it is in the sinner's best interest. God is Holy. God hates sin. His holiness and hatred of sin, like each of His attributes, is living and active and must manifest itself. His holy wrath at sin must strike.
      See Isaiah 53:6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
   The literal translation of the Hebrew for "has laid on" is "caused to strike upon".
   Any view of the punishment of sin that leaves out the thought of its being an expression of God's holy hatred of sin, is not only unbiblical, but shallow and dishonoring to God. God is holy, infinitely holy, and infinitely hates sin. We get glimpses at times of what God's hatred of sin must be, in our own burning indignation at some enormous iniquity, but God is infinitely holy and God's wrath at the smallest sin is infinitely greater than ours at the greatest enormity.
   God is love, it is true, but the love is not of the sentimental sort that sends costly bouquets and tender missives to moral monsters, as some of our Universalist theologians would have us think.
Hebrews 12:29 ... our "God is a consuming fire."
   God's love to sinners will never be appreciated until seen in the light of His blazing wrath at sin.
   Also see the discussion of Universalism in Chapter 35.
080.030.060       Torrey: p40, T:III, P:8
POINT 60:   The holiness of God manifests itself in His making an infinite sacrifice to save others from sin over into holiness. The death of Christ is not merely a manifestation of the love of God but of His holiness as well.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, ...
080.040.000       Torrey: p40, T:IV, P:40
Topic 40:   Practical inferences from the doctrine that God is Holy.
080.040.012       Torrey: p40, T:IV
POINT 12:   We must approach God with the respect, awe, and reverence that He deserves.
Hebrews 12:28-29 [28] Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, [29] for our "God is a consuming fire."
Exodus 3:4-5 [4] When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, "Moses! Moses!" And Moses said, "Here I am." [5] "Do not come any closer," God said. "Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground."
Isaiah 6:1-3 [1] In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of his robe filled the temple. [2] Above him were seraphs, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying. [3] And they were calling to one another: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory."
   Even the holy seraphim covered their faces and their feet in His presence. They have four wings for worship and only two for service.
080.040.014       Torrey: p41, T:IV
POINT 14:   The pure light of God's holiness reveals the blackness of our sin.
Isaiah 6:5-6 [5] "Woe to me!" I cried. "I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty." [6] Then one of the seraphs flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar.
      Compare Job 42:5-6 [5] My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you. [6] Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.
   If any man thinks well of himself, he has never met God. Nothing will demolish self-righteousness like one real sight of God. In dealing with self-righteous persons get them into the holy presence of God if you can.
080.040.016       Torrey: p41, T:IV
POINT 16:   There is no forgiveness without atonement. Sin must be covered from the holy gaze of God, and nothing will cover it but blood.
Hebrews 9:22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
080.040.018       Torrey: p41, T:IV
POINT 18:   God's love is so great that Christ died for us even while we were sinners.
Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

If someone called you "holy" would you consider it to be a compliment? It would probably depend on two things. First, it would depend on whether another word was attached to the word holy, such as, "a holy roller" or "holier than thou" or a "Holy Joe". In these cases the term would be considered derisive . . .a negative connotation. And secondly it would depend on the person's definition of holiness. In the mind of many, "holy" means; narrow-minded, uptight, judgmental, detached, Victorian and other negative words. In this case being called holy would not be a compliment. But if you were called holy in the Biblical sense, it would be a great compliment . . . one we might be very uncomfortable with.
Of all the attributes of God . . . holiness is the one that seems to take center stage. Most of you know that in the Hebrew language to repeat a word is to emphasize it. For example if you said a stone was big it would mean one thing. If you said the stone was big big . . . you would mean it was a really big stone. If it was big, big, big, it would mean that it was a gigantic boulder.
In Isaiah 6 and in Revelation 4 the angels declare that God is "holy, holy, holy". This is the only attribute of God that is emphasized in this way. God is never called "Love, love, love," or "mercy, mercy, mercy". Therefore, if we want to know God we must understand the idea of God's holiness.
HOLINESS DEFINED
R.C. Sproul gives us a simple way to remember the definition of holiness,

The first prayer I learned as a child was the simple table grace: "God is great, God is good, and we thank Him for this food." The two virtues assigned to God in this prayer, greatness and goodness, may be captured by the one biblical word, holy. [Essential Truths p. 47]

So, there are two ideas to holiness. The first is the idea of greatness. One of the meanings of holiness is the idea of being "set apart". God is apart from us . . . He is in a class by Himself. "There is a profound difference between Him and those He has created. When the Bible speaks of holy objects or holy people or holy time, it refers to things that have been set apart, consecrated, or made different by the touch of God upon them. It was the nearness of the divine that made the ordinary suddenly extraordinary and the common, uncommon." [Sproul ibid.] Holiness means that God is transcendent (or unique and superior) in His greatness.

The second aspect of holiness (and the one we generally think of first) is the idea of purity. God is good. He does what is right and never does what is wrong. God is unstained by, and uncompromising with sin. God does not "bend a little" when it comes to wrong-doing. God always acts in a righteous manner because His nature is holiness. He is both great and good.

A CASE STUDY IN HOLINESS

The best way to understand Holiness is to look at a case study in Isaiah 6:1-8. The setting is sometime after the death of King Uzziah. Most of Uzziah's story can be found in 2 Chronicles 26. He was for the most part a successful King. We do know that Isaiah ministered during part of Uzziah's reign but we don't know what kind of relationship they had. We can only speculate on what Isaiah's state of mind was when he received the vision recorded in chapter 6. Perhaps Isaiah was concerned what would happen next in Israel. Maybe the vision had nothing to do with Uzziah at all.

Anyway, Isaiah has a vision. And there are several things that happen in this vision. The first thing we notice is GOD'S GREATNESS.

I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of his robe filled the temple. Above him were seraphs, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying. And they were calling to one another: 'Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory." At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook and the temple was filled with smoke.

Notice the details of Isaiah's vision: God was on the throne. Uzziah may have died, but God was still on the throne. The throne was high and exalted which means that it is greater and exceeded all other thrones. The train (just the train) of His robe filled the temple. I don't know why it is but when a bride walks down an aisle her dress often has a long "train". Some of you remember the wedding of Diana and Prince Charles. Diana's train was so long that there were people there to carry the train of her dress! Why? It is a symbol of royalty. The train of God filled the entire temple! His royalty far surpasses anything we have known or can imagine.

At his side were angels. Their job was to give glory to the Lord. We know that these angels were beings that were without sin. They were pure, yet, with their six wings they cover their face and feet. The symbols of their creatureliness are covered in the presence of the magnificent God! We make a mistake when we imagine that God's goodness is simply higher than that of the best human. It is in a class all of it's own. Even the best people are flawed people! God's purity makes the sinless angel's blush and seek cover.

The angels praise the Lord with the "three times holy". They declare that He is supremely holy. The shaking of the doorposts simply adds to the sense of awesomeness and power. These images are designed to point us to a majesty in God that should provoke reverence and awe.

True worship begins when we stop and gasp at the wonder, power, and otherness of God. Worship begins when we catch of glimpse of holiness.

SECOND, WE SEE GOD'S GOODNESS AND MAN'S UNWORTHINESS. Isaiah's response is not what we would have expected. We would have expected him to say something like, "Cooool!" or "Wow!". But Isaiah is not impressed or wowed . . . he is "undone".

'Woe to me!" I cried. 'I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty."

We see similar experiences,

Matthew 14:25, 26 During the fourth watch of the night Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. 'It's a ghost," they said, and cried out in fear.

In Matthew 17 at the Mount of Transfiguration we read, "While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, 'This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!" When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground, terrified. But Jesus came and touched them. 'Get up," he said. 'Don't be afraid."

When the centurion at the cross of Christ saw the earthquake he was terrified. When the Shepherds saw the angels at the birth of Christ we know they were "sore afraid." Anytime someone gets a glimpse of the Almighty God they are terrified. Why? Because in Exodus 33:20, God said, "no one may see me and live." God is so good that He will destroy anything sinful or unholy.

The first response of an unholy person to the holiness of God is an acute awareness of personal sin. When the unholy confronts the holy we become very conscious of our own sinfulness. It is like we live most of our lives with some of the lights off . . . we are able to hide some of our wickedness in the dark. But when we come into the presence of God the darkness is gone. All the hidden is exposed.

Remember back to when you were a child. You may have thought you were a great athlete, or great student, or a great musician, or even a spiritual giant because you always seemed to excel over others. But somewhere along the line you found out that there were many others who were as gifted and more so. Sometimes the first months of college are very sobering because the standard has changed. And when you approach the professional ranks . . .the standard changes again. I know anytime I start feeling spiritually cocky, all I have to do is read a biography of one of the great leaders of the past. Quickly I am humbled.

If you have had an experience like that then you have just a little of an idea of how Isaiah felt. All our lives we feel we are doing pretty well because we have been comparing ourselves to each other. And when we compare myself to those around us we can always spot those who are seemingly worse than we are. However, when we compare ourselves to the standard of holiness . . . look out. At that time the walls of delusion come crumbling down.

This is why I believe that a person who has no sense of their own sinfulness has really never had a true sense of the nature of God. The person who believes that they did the right things to get saved has no awareness of how deeply stained they really are. We must be undone before we can be remade. The Holy Spirit has to awaken us to our sinfulness before we can be summoned to His grace.

Notice something else about Isaiah's conviction. What was he most conscious of? He was most conscious of His unclean lips. Now think about that. What was Isaiah's greatest strength? It was that he was a spokesman for God. His lips should have been the one thing that fared well in the light of God's holiness . . . but it was His lips He saw as sinful. Even in his greatest strength he was undone when it was compared to God's holiness.

Often I will hear people say, "Look, God can never save me . . . I've done too many bad things in my life." I will often say to those people, "You are closer to salvation than many who have been raised in the church." The reason is that they are aware of their sin. They are a step closer to the Kingdom of Heaven than the church goer who is often trusting in their goodness.

The THIRD THING WE SEE IS GOD'S PROVISION. Once Isaiah realizes his sin, notice what happens,

Then one of the seraphs flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. With it he touched my mouth and said, 'See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for."

We read this and we are prone to say, "Ouch!" The angel takes a hot coal and touched it to Isaiah's mouth. Why? He cauterizes the sin. Perhaps you have been to the Doctor and had something cauterized. Cauterization is the process of sealing a wound or destroying abnormal or infected tissue with a heated instrument. God cauterizes Isaiah's lips. He eliminates the impurity.

Isaiah's guilt is taken away but it is not shrugged off. God doesn't say, "Aw, let's just forget it!" Instead he tells Isaiah that his sin "is atoned for". In other words, it was paid for.

How? It was paid for in Jesus. How can that be, you ask? Isaiah lived many hundreds of years before Jesus. But the promise had been made. The plan was in place. God forgave Isaiah on the basis of what Christ was going to do hundreds of years later. Just like He is willing to forgive you and I on the basis of what He has done many hundreds of years before us.

When Jesus (the sinless Son of God) died on the cross, He paid for our sin. God's justice is satisfied (sin is punished) and He is also able to extend mercy (on the basis of Christ's substitution). The reason we are called children of God is not because we are good . . . but because we are forgiven. We are forgiven not because we were among the best of the class but because Christ died for our sin.

After Isaiah sees God's majesty, is confronted with His sin, finds forgiveness through the sacrifice of Christ we read . . .

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, 'Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, 'Here am I. Send me!"

WE SEE GOD'S SUMMONS. The Lord is now looking for a messenger. Isaiah, who has been transformed by grace and made alive by the mercy of God, volunteers for service. Sproul points out that Isaiah doesn't say, "Here I am" . . . that would be to identify his position. Instead he says, "Here am I". He offers Himself as a "living sacrifice" (Rom. 12:1) if you will.

Isaiah is now willing to serve not out of obligation but out of gratitude and out of a desire to exalt God's glory. Isaiah wants the world to know the greatness of God. He's not concerned about promoting his school of prophets, or his system of financial management, or his course on public speaking. Isaiah is concerned with one thing . . . to honor the one who is most worthy of honor.

A CALL TO HOLINESS

This leads us to the third area in our study. In the Bible we are told that we are to "be holy as God is holy".

Lev. 11:44-45 I am the LORD your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. Do not make yourselves unclean by any creature that moves about on the ground. I am the LORD who brought you up out of Egypt to be your God; therefore be holy, because I am holy. [a command repeated 4 times in Leviticus]

Jesus echoes this command in Matthew 5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Now when we hear this command to be holy we do one of two things. We either a) brush it off as impossible. Or, we have an image similar to John White,

Have you ever gone fishing in a polluted river and hauled out an old shoe, a tea kettle, or a rusty can? I get a similar sort of catch if I cast as a bait the word holiness into the murky depths of my mind. To my dismay I come up with such associations as:

thinness
hollow-eyed gauntness
beards
sandals
long robes
stone cells
no sex
no jokes
hair shirts
frequent cold baths
fasting
hours of prayer
wild rocky deserts
getting up at 4 A.M.
clean fingernails
stained glass
self-humiliation
[The Fight p.179]

But that is not what God is calling us to. He is calling us to a Christlike living. We are to be set aside for the service of the Lord. The person who is living the life of holiness will be humbly aware of their forgiveness and yet diligent in seeking to eliminate any trace of sin from their lives. They will be people who are constantly saying, "Here am I Lord," use me and lead me as you deem best.

Chuck Colson says it well, "Holiness is the everyday business of every Christian. It evidences itself in the decisions we make and the things we do, hour by hour, day by day." [Loving God p. 131]

The person who has begun to understand God's holiness is a person who is changed. The idea of an unchanged Christian is a contradiction in terms. If you are not pursuing holiness, there is a good chance you are not a child of God . . . no matter how long you have been in the church. Don't take my word for it, take Paul's,

[Eph 5:1-7] Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.

If we are going to be true followers we must be serious about our pursuit of personal holiness.

CONCLUSIONS

Though our study and pursuit of holiness must never end, this sermon needs to come to a conclusion. So let me make several final observations.

First, it should be obvious, that there is no better way to use our time than to use it for God's glory. There is nothing better. There is no one greater than the Lord. He is our life, our hope, our joy. To run after and serve anything other than the Lord is foolishness. Look at your own heart and turn away from the trivial pursuits that so often occupy our energy.

Second, we need to take personal holiness seriously. We spend a good deal of our lives trifling with sin. I know I find myself compromising with the unholy all the time. We push God off to the side when we feel He is getting in the way of our enjoyment or of our "entertainment". Look, I know that taking holiness seriously means significant change in our lives. And like you . . . I resist it. However, if we understand God's mercy and grace at all, if we have any sense of God's holiness (which is becoming more and more rare) we will want to purge all that is profane from our lives. It is time to do a personal inventory and to make changes,

• in your entertainment
• your use of your time
• the way you spend your money
• the way you talk
• the way you do your job
• the way you treat others
• the way you worship

Finally, we need to stop comparing ourselves to others and start measuring ourselves by the correct standard. When we measure our lives by God's standards we see ourselves truly. Yes, it often hurts. And facing the truth is painful. We must accept responsibility for our own behavior. But the amazing thing about the gospel is that it tells us that because of what Christ has done on our behalf, if we admit our sin and turn to Him for mercy . . . we will find it. Our Holy God will cover us with the righteousness or goodness of Christ.

Submitted: Fri, Apr 02, 2004 1:45 am
Subject: Scanning, How to proceed

Dear Peniel G.G.G.,

Thank you for your response. Let me respond in kind.

1.) It is almost unacceptable for me to send let the 'actual' documents, pages, books, material, etc. out of my possession, as I need them for teaching, and I treasure them like my precious children. (I might be willing to send you one of my children, but not one of my books!;)

I understand completely and I do not want the responsibility of having your originals in my possession. Is it possible to obtain Xerox type copies of them? I purchased a Cannon Personal Copier some years ago, which serves well. It has a replaceable ink cartridge that can be refilled by the user. In this way, the copying cost may be reduced by about 90%.

2.) I know you are willing now, but you may not know how deep the waters are that you are getting into? I suspect that there are probably about 30 to 50 'volumes' worth of pages (with a volume being a couple of hundred hand-written pages) that we are talking about.

Oh my! I am willing to do what I can but with that volume I will only scratch the surface.

1.) See if you are able to download, open and 'read' these scanned page images. START WITH I.T.0056.jpg and work forward from there, to start.

I was able to do this.
2.) If so, see if you can decipher my handwriting (hey, even if you just got close to the words, I will be greatly indebted and of course go over the returned 'electronic' versions with a fine toothed comb to correct, expand, and clarify everything you get typed in.)

I could read your handwriting well enough. However, each line needed to be scrolled from side-to-side and downward which is tedious. This method will be very time-consuming for this much material.

3.) See if there are parts of what is up there now (about a hundred scanned pages) that is 'more interesting' or appealing to you to start with, and we will do those FIRST. (i.e. email me and say, BOY, I would sure like to read the workshop on L.O.V.E (Love's Object - Various Expressions) and if it is not already scanned and up at the site, I will have my novitiate scan that next and get it available to you as soon as possible.)

The material I examined is interesting.

4.) If you find that you are unwilling to transcribe some or all of the material in a given page, section, chapter, book, etc. for either personal reasons, religious reasons, or ANY reasons, just say so and we will have someone else tasked for that. (I would never assist someone in a work if I felt that what was being proposed in the writings was false, misleading, unloving, or harmful to me, my fellow lover's of God, or Dad Himself. I understand that you have this same rite, and I would never question your decision to not assist in something that you may find offensive, untrue, misguiding, etc.)

That is very acceptable and reasonable and I thank you in advance concerning my sensitivities.

Since this entire book represents only a couple of days worth our earliest (and best) discussions, IMAGINE what transpired for 13 years! GOD how I wish I had all of it written down, but, that would certainly fill at least several hundred books of just the raw conversations, before the badly-wanted commentary and expansion.

So, I suspect that we would have to spend at least a half a life, maybe more.

I will daydream for a moment and imagine this: At a secure location near you, there is a room full of people typing from your documents into computers. You are there directing, sorting, editing, arranging, answering questions, and making typing assignments. As each book emerges it is added to your Internet online bookstore. The cost of the books are nominal but the returns finance your continuing publishing operation.

Is there any hope for such a possibility? How else can the volume of this material be converted? I can chip away at it, and happy to do so, but is there some
option that allows progress at a much faster rate? What are the possibilities?

I think of all the beautiful wisdom Jesus has so patiently imparted to me, and I see my approaching mortality, and I weep for the loss to man this will mean!

I am surprised that you would say this because if God wants this material preserved there can be no loss to man! He will preserve it, if that is His wish.

I think there should be some thought given for the future of this material. I read a story about a very successful life insurance salesman. He met a man who wanted to insure the continuation of his special interest. The resulting insurance policy guaranteed it. So I would suggest that there may be something that could be done in the area of a will, insurance, and advanced thinking and planning so that this information will be preserved. In this way you will have done your part.

Well, these are just some ideas. I believe that thinking ahead is time well spent unless no action is ever taken. I have been in too many meetings in which there is much discussion and planning but with little or no resulting action. Such meetings are then frustrating in retrospect, and without action are unprofitable. This has the net effect of discouraging all other future planning meetings for those involved. So I encourage you Peniel (for the G.G.G) that you consider these suggestions
and the Lord, through the leadership of the Holy Spirit, will give you wisdom as you proceed.

My best regards,
Tom

PS- I will do whatever I reasonably can to assist you in any way that you want to proceed.

Submitted:
Subject: Peniel's reply to Tom - offer to scan and Peniel's Writing History

BCC List: KC, DC, JG, Biyn, DM, AP, TW

Tom,

Thank you for your valuable suggestions, and your enormously generous offer to scan in some of the material.

Most of what you will have to scan is somehow dated, and most of what has already been scanned is some of the oldest materials (1975 through 1980).

So that you can better understand what it is that you are scanning in, let me give you a brief history of my life and activities pertinent to these writings:

The key point would be 1980 – All written before that was before Jesus came and began teaching me, so it is full of just my general spiritual ‘seeking' and gathering from books (albeit their were several hundred books that I gathered from!) After mid-1980, Jesus influenced EVERYTHING that I wrote, so everything after then is far superior to that before. Unfortunately, I spent the vast majority of my time listening and talking with Dad, and did very little writing since 1980. Perhaps now, it is time to begin putting down some of what He has given me. 

Peniel's Writing History:

1957 - I was born (no writings yet)

1975 - Graduated Shawnee, OK High School

1975 - Joined Air Force, moved away from home, began reading voraciously, seeking Truth (as I read, I sometimes created Seminars, Workshops, notes, etc. from what I had gleaned from the books). Threw away the religious upbringing I had been raised in. Determined to find the True Church, not my earthly father's version. 

1976 - Married my childhood sweetheart, Gail. Stationed in Tampa, FL. Continued my voracious reading (about 100+ books per year)

1977 - 1978 - Tampa, FL. Began having strange spiritual experiences. Folks back home worried. Wife concerned.

1978 - Went into mental hospital for a few days, hearing voices, spiritual troubles. Atheist psychiatrist chalked it up to 'spiritual immaturity'. Told me to go back home, get married in the church so I wouldn't feel guilty about living in sin. (Did so.)

1978 - AF relocated us to Ray City, CA. Studies continued. Voices became more prevalent.

1979 - Ray City, CA. 8 months prior to birth, I successfully predict wife's pregnancy and exact date and time for birth of our child. First instance of use of my 'spiritual power'. (I was a few hours off.) Voices more troubling, found local monk at retreat, accepted him as spiritual director. (Monk surprised at how many books I go through in their excellent spiritual library. Monk concerned about voices.)

1979 - I read about 50 of the monk's libraries books, at his recommendation: The way of Divine Love, St. Francis, Theresa Mendez, Imitation of Christ, Apologies, Early Christian Fathers, Confessions of St. Augustine, many more.

1979 - I learn enough to challenge the voices. They turn on me. It is not angels, demons! They attack me spiritually.

1980 - Early April. With God's help, the voices are driven out. They go screaming they will one day return and 'get' me.

1980- Mid April. Something is happening. Rocks are being removed from my garden. Preparation is underway. I fee peaceful for the first time in years. Reading continues at a casual pace (finishing Zen studies.) I become 'enlightened' after reading story of Zen master lighting his fire with Buddha statue. Pursuing knowledge is no longer appealing to me.

1980 - Late April - I read my last book (no more seeking.) It has the Zen story of the truth-seeker and the master in the water. That night, strange experiences happen. I become the Zen student, Jesus is the master. The next morning - HE ARRIVED!

1980 - April 28? - I have the 30-second long apparition. Jesus appears to me. He makes me look into His eyes. I am transformed (see details in email archives.) Jesus begins his casual conversations with me. Over the next 3 days, He answers all of the 20 questions on the old tattered sheet in my wallet.

1980 - Apr 29 - My 23rd birthday. I break down and cry over the hot dogs Gail has fixed for my supper. I am unworthy of them, or her. My humility is brought forth and the clarity with which I see everything almost destroys me. I see my actions as a vile and despicable worm. I am so very far from the person I should be. I begin to change my actions to fit my newly given (true) personality. My conversations with Jesus continue. I begin realizing that my life and actions are not what they should be. I am not a very good husband, lover, person.

1980 - May - I take the lion's share of everything I have read and written for the last 5 years and have a ceremony at the lake where I burn it all (a mistake I will later regret.) I burn about 20 books worth of material I had written, seeing it all as worthless junk. I wish to start over fresh. I am compelled to keep some of what I have written, and I do. Conversations continuing. I have learned so much! I voracious consume Jesus words and spend long hours talking with Him about EVERYTHING. I don't sleep much.

1980 - July - Summer is born (just exactly as predicted.) Wife, parents, in-laws are all 'very surprised' at the prediction made 8 months earlier. 4 months of conversations with sweet Father. I am a new man. I know things that would be of great benefit to others. I wish they would hear me.

1980 - November - I am transferred to Osan Korea without wife and daughter for 1 year. I spend this year almost entirely with Jesus. I have lots of free time, all spent voraciously consuming Christ. He is my constant companion. I feel very close to Him. He is proud that I am becoming a better person by applying the principles He is guiding me to understand. Life begins to 'simplify'. I began seeing 'underneath' things, to the cores and meaning and principles. Everyone's actions around me become very clear. Motives are obvious. My understanding of individuals and couples, relationships, human motivations, etc all become very keen.

1981 - My earthly father dies. I make it back on emergency leave just in time to see him one last time and say our goodbyes.

1981 - I return to Korea, finish my time. I continue to write some things.

1981 - November. We are stationed at Valdosta, GA (for 6 years.) Summer is 16 months old. My life and love for Gail and Summer blossoms. I continue conversations and some writing.

1981 - 1984 - Glorious happy family times. Jesus is my close companion. We talk a lot. My love for Gail and Summer is pure and intense. I see the truth of it. I begin teaching others, whom are 'brought' to me, prepared. I form a small group of 'disciples' (followers) we sit at work and discuss spiritual matters. Many listen in. I meet Jeff Martindale. I create 'The Box" game and use it as an instructional aide to teach Jeff how to use great power. He takes all tests and does extremely well, everyone else fails miserably. Their 'failings' eventually becomes the book, "The Box". Our "little group" grows in spirit. I can tell some of these guys, especially Jeff, is destined for greatness, one day. Several offer their 'services' to me. I do not know how to 'use' them at this time. We hold some retreats and seminars and workshops at the lake. I begin compiling various workshops, seminars, etc and using my little 'group' as a testing ground. We perform the 'Demon's Circle' and this freaks out Paul, he leaves the group. Jeff Adams gets drunk and gets his buddies into a fight in a bar. I use this incident (and my understanding of the motives) in a discussion with Jess, and a later seminar.

1985 - I go TDY to Las Vegas for 2 weeks. During that time, Jesus allows me to write down (ion notebook paper, by hand) the earliest 20 conversations we had in 1980. In two weeks, we recount all 20 conversations and I writhe them down (600 pages.) This becomes the book titled, "The Truth (My Conversations with God)" which is later changed for publishing to "Oh My God! Are You Talking to Me? (My Conversations with Jesus)" for commercial purposes.

1986 - 1987 - We seek publisher. Send off many manuscript copies on disk and paper. No one is interested. Send off copies to marketing firms in CA (at request of 2 publishers to see if they might 'special market' it.) No responses.

1988 - Decide that after 100 attempts, it is obvious that no one is going to publish (they all say it is too risky, no precedence.)

1988 - Leave Air Force (12 years) and return home to Shawnee, OK. Give printed copy of Truth to each of my brothers and sisters and mother. Most do not read it. Casual conversations continue. Much more casual now, I know Jesus well! There is little that I ask because knowing Him so well, I already know how He will answer. We talk mainly about things that interest me, He oftentimes points someone out to me (a total stranger) and tells me wonderful things about them. I begin to realize just how good most people are, and how hidden this is from normal view.

1988 - 2002 – Teach about 150 people seriously (typically spending about 3-4 months with each, some together, some alone.) To my great joy, my sister-in-law is one that I teach. She goes back to her husband (my brother) of many years in marriage. Soon after, my brother comes under training and he learns much. I am overjoyed to be able to help some of my relatives, along with a crowd of strangers. Book is shelved, used in teaching, given a copy to each ‘serious' student under my training. Most everything (writing and spiritually) is put on hold, awaiting ‘My Time'.

2002 - 2003 – Strange set of coincidences gets book ‘The Truth" published as OMGAYTTM. As expected, little initial response. It appears although Jesus wants it widely and publicly available, He is still hiding it so that I don't get swamped with seekers too soon.

2004 – It appears that my time is slowly dawning. Some general interest in OMG book by a small group of people. (I have no idea of how they find it, it is not advertised at all!) My nephew gets a copy of the book OMG and upon reading it, has his life changed. He becomes the first ‘serious' novitiate to become a Penielite. He begins scanning in some of the oldest works. I spend several hours a week in his instruction. We both are awaiting ‘my time'. God will arrange!

Present -

 OK, History lesson ends.

Below is our ‘combination' email, all your text in red, mine in black and blue. All OLD paragraphs preceded with > all new with *

======================================================= 

>Dear Peniel G.G.G.,
>Thank you for your response. Let me respond in kind.
>
>1.) It is almost unacceptable for me to send let the 'actual' documents, pages, books, material, etc. out of my possession, as I need them for teaching, and I treasure them like my precious children. (I might be willing to send you one of my children, but not one of my books!;)
>
>I understand completely and I do not want the responsibility of having your originals in my possession. Is it possible to obtain Xerox type copies of them? I purchased a Cannon Personal Copier some years ago, which serves well. It has a replaceable ink cartridge that can be refilled by the user. In this way, the copying cost may be reduced by about 90%.
* No problem. We already have scanners here. My novitiate will do the scanning, I will assist if needed. We will begin by going through all of the material and picking out what might be of most interest and help to the general group, and start scanning that. I will move it all to the www.MCWJ.com website so that I can have control over it. (The scanned images will stay available until we put the electronic versions up, if ever.)

>2.) I know you are willing now, but you may not know how deep the waters are that you are getting into? I suspect that there are probably about 30 to 50 'volumes' worth of pages (with a volume being a couple of hundred hand-written pages) that we are talking about.
>Oh my! I am willing to do what I can but with that volume I will only scratch the surface.
*Anything that you will do will be greatly appreciated!

>1.) See if you are able to download, open and 'read' these scanned page images. START WITH I.T.0056.jpg and work forward from there, to start.
>I was able to do this.
>2.) If so, see if you can decipher my handwriting (hey, even if you just got close to the words, I will be greatly indebted and of course go over the returned 'electronic' versions with a fine toothed comb to correct, expand, and clarify everything you get typed in.)
>I could read your handwriting well enough. However, each line needed to be scrolled from side-to-side and downward which is tedious. This method will be very time-consuming for this much material.
*This is why I want to get the most interesting / best / interesting to YOU material scanned first.

>3.) See if there are parts of what is up there now (about a hundred scanned pages) that is 'more interesting' or appealing to you to start with, and we will do those FIRST. (i.e. email me and say, BOY, I would sure like to read the workshop on L.O.V.E (Love's Object - Various Expressions) and if it is not already scanned and up at the site, I will have my novitiate scan that next and get it available to you as soon as possible.)
>The material I examined is interesting.
*Good, then you can start with whatever part of it you like. LOOK AT PAGES 60 through 65, they are a LIST of the various Workshops. You might decide that some of them would be interesting to you next.

>4.) If you find that you are unwilling to transcribe some or all of the material in a given page, section, chapter, book, etc. for either personal reasons, religious reasons, or ANY reasons, just say so and we will have someone else tasked for that. (I would never assist someone in a work if I felt that what was being proposed in the writings was false, misleading, unloving, or harmful to me, my fellow lover's of God, or Dad Himself. I understand that you have this same rite, and I would never question your decision to not assist in something that you may find offensive, untrue, misguiding, etc.)
>That is very acceptable and reasonable and I thank you in advance concerning my sensitivities.

>Since this entire book represents only a couple of days worth our earliest (and best) discussions, IMAGINE what transpired for 13 years! GOD how I wish I had all of it written down, but, that would certainly fill at least several hundred books of just the raw conversations, before the badly-wanted commentary and expansion.
>So, I suspect that we would have to spend at least a half a life, maybe more.
>I will daydream for a moment and imagine this: At a secure location near you, there is a room full of people typing from your documents into computers. You are there directing, sorting, editing, arranging, answering questions, and making typing assignments. As each book emerges it is added to your Internet online bookstore. The cost of the books are nominal but the returns finance your continuing publishing operation.
>
>Is there any hope for such a possibility? How else can the volume of this material be converted? I can chip away at it, and happy to do so, but is there some
>option that allows progress at a much faster rate? What are the possibilities?

*Jesus, I pray and beseech You – Let his vision become reality! Let my dream come true! Yes my brother, I envision something just like this, AND MORE! I see me conducting the seminars and workshops, teaching large groups about Love and Life and having good relationships, and Jesus, etc. I see a whole group of dedicated members, Penielites, all willingly assisting in this noble work. Scanning, teaching, assisting, helping, etc. AS each Penielite progresses in knowledge and ability, they begin training others also, relieving me of the burden so that I can finish writing new seminars and workshops.

* But, all in God's good time. I had to wait 23 years before He spoke to me, then 23 more years before what He said was published. Let's pray that He doesn't make me wait another 23 years to begin. For now, we will scan and put it on the website. Then, you can turn what of it you will into electronic format. All will be made available publicly.

>I think of all the beautiful wisdom Jesus has so patiently imparted to me, and I see my approaching mortality, and I weep for the loss to man this will mean!
>I am surprised that you would say this because if God wants this material preserved there can be no loss to man! He will preserve it, if that is His wish.

*I say this because I realize that it is an important work, a work that I cannot do alone. If indeed He wants it done, He will arrange it. I have great faith. And if it does NOT get done, then it is not His will, and I will accept that. But, I dream and anxiously await those He promised will one-day assist me.

>I think there should be some thought given for the future of this material. I read a story about a very successful life insurance salesman. He met a man who wanted to insure the continuation of his special interest. The resulting insurance policy guaranteed it. So I would suggest that there might be something that could be done in the area of a will, insurance, and advanced thinking and planning so that this information will be preserved. In this way you will have done your part.

*All of the ‘material' that currently exists belongs to my wife, as I am under a strict vow of poverty. However, with at least the one novitiate, aware of the importance of this work, I have no fear about its future safety and use. God has already relieved my concerns in this area. I will take you up on your wonderful suggestion about future planning and make clear to my wife and novitiate my wishes regarding this special material.

>Well, these are just some ideas. I believe that thinking ahead is time well spent unless no action is ever taken. I have been in too many meetings in which there is much discussion and planning but with little or no resulting action. Such meetings are then frustrating in retrospect, and without action are unprofitable. This has the net effect of discouraging all other future planning meetings for those involved. So I encourage you Peniel (for the G.G.G) that you consider these suggestions and the Lord, through the leadership of the Holy Spirit, will give you wisdom as you proceed.

*Of that, my dear friend, I have no doubts. I am merely ‘impatient'.

>My best regards,
>Tom

>PS- I will do whatever I reasonably can to assist you in any way that you want to proceed.

*May God reward you with grace, joy and peace for whatever role you choose to accept in this. 

Peniel G.G.G.

*** (Last Archived) ***

Submitted: Sun, Apr 04, 2004 12:38 am
Subject:

Hello Peniel,
Thank you for the excellent treatise on "holiness". What is the source of this material? I also appreciate knowing your personal history.

Actually my offer had not included a scanning offer but typing directly into a word processor. Scanning produces an image (not text) and typing produces modifiable text useful in many document types. However, I can also do scanning too if you like, although I consider it's usefulness very limited.

I see that you have apparently already added me to your BCC list, which is OK.

There is also another way to convert your handwritten notes into text and that would be by voice recognition software. This I cannot do but others may
have that capability. I have also heard that the new OCR software has improved to the point that handwriting may be scanned and converted into text by means of an OCR. How good this software is I cannot say.

I will look at what you suggest in the files.

Your friend,
Tom

Submitted: Mon, Apr 05, 2004 12:37 am
Subject: Scanning images

Hello Peniel,

Please let me explain the following reasons why you should NOT be scanning your notes into jpg files:

Scanning
1. Scanning is great for IMAGES of photograps, drawings, sketches, etc.
2, Image files consume LARGE amounts of media storage space (just look at your IT.jpg files).
3. Image files are difficult to convert into text files (especially handwriting).

Wordprocessing
1. Wordprocessing is GREAT for text.
2. Text files consume very LITTLE media storage space.
3. Text files are easy to use and convert into virtually any file type for use with any or most wordprocessing programs.

Conclusions:
1. I AM UNWILLING TO CONVERT ANY MORE IMAGE (JPG TYPE) FILES INTO TEXT FILES
BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF EFFORT REQUIRED PER PAGE.
2. HOWEVER,  I AM VERY WILLING TO CONVERT UNLIMITED XEROX-TYPE (8 1/2 X 11)
COPIES OF YOUR HAND-WRITTEN NOTES INTO TEXT FILES.

I am sorry to come to this conclusion but the experience of converting only these six pages of notes convinces me that there must be a better way to do it. Otherwise, the task is more than daunting; few people will be willing to go to such lengths for so little results.

I converted your I.T.0060 through .006.jpg files into the following text.

Various Workshops
File: I.T.0060.jpg

1.) What’s I.T. All About? - (Seminar Introduction, General Info.)
2.) Who Do You Think You Are? (Personality Types, Beliefs, Self-Perceptions, Imposed Attitudes+Personalities)
3.) Say What? (Communication, Listening, Speaking, Oration)
4.) You Don’t Have To Rehearse To Be Yourself! (Self-Actualization, Gestalt Techniques, etc.)
5.) L.O.V.E. (Loves Object-Various Expressions (Love-Levels, Methods of Showing, Vehicles, Aspects, etc.)
6.) So What Are You Afraid Of? (Fear, Fear Cessation and Control, etc.)
7.) L.I.F.E. (Life Is For Enjoying) (Enjoyment, Levels Of Pleasure, Excitement In Living, Goals)
8.) G.A.M.E.S. (Games All Mutually Enjoy Sharing) (Games People Play-Objects, Parts, Rules, Purpose, Pastimes, etc.)
File: I.T.0061.jpg
9.) Reality-My Own Little World! (Wow, What A Metaphysical Absurdity!) (Reality, Metaphysics, Perceptions, Symbols, Structure, Gestalts, Mental
Imagery)
10.) Sourcing-Handling Life! (Do The Best With What You Got!) (Crisis Prevention, Problem Solving (Giving Away), Tough Personality Dealings, Coping, etc.)
11.) Let’s Be Social! (Parties, Social Life, Dealing With People Socially, Social Games, etc.)
12.) Sex!
13.) The Survivors-Fully Laid Out
14.) Power-How To Handle IT (Peniel G.G.G. Game) (The Little Black Box-Phase I, II, III)
15.) Insight, Intuition-Zen, Koans
16.) Religion-God-What’s HE Really Like?
17.) Truthseekers (Those Seeking THE TRUTH!)
File: I.T.0062.jpg
18.)The Penielite’s G.G.G. (A Lay Order Of Love And Service)
19.) Know Thyself! (Metaphysical Questions About Man)
20.) Worldling Spiritual Questions (Can God Make A Weight So Heavy That He Can’t Lift It?)
21. Eliminating Pain And Suffering (Who Needs Them?)
22.) Perfection-Attainment
23.) Peniel G.G.G.- (Who And Why?)
24.) The Peniel G.G.G. Weekend Camping Trip And Retreat (Meeting Others, Good And Evil)
25.) Discussions-Various Religious Subjects
26.) Parasia- Discussions
File: I.T.0063.jpg
A Workshop For Your Life
I.T.S.-W.E.-1 (Improvement Training Seminars-Workshop Experiences)
Part of the I.T.S. Foundation
Founded by Peniel G.G.G. (Mark A. Johnson)
Founded 1 Jan. 1985

Workshop #1
Entitled:

WHAT’S I.T. ABOUT?
File: I.T.0064.jpg
Contents
W.E.-1 (WHAT’S I.T. ABOUT?)
Title Page
Contents W.E.-1 Overview
Introduction
Life Is 3 Feet Long
The Purpose Of The Seminar
Cheese Please
How’s Your Life?
The Qualities Of People Who Have IT
Questions And Answers About IT
The Dreamer (Poem)
IT Is You (skit)
Process Explanation
Locate Your Space
Go To The Beach
Experience Now
Headache Cure
Items About IT
What You Will Get From IT
What You Must Give Up For IT
Pre-Seminar Questionnaire
Seminar Agreement
Goodbye And Sign-Up Session
File: I.T.0065.jpg
Welcome
(Large sincere smile-roving sustained eye contact-excitement) (Tell joke about boy and turtle.) (Tell joke about missionary and lion praying.)
I am very pleased with each one of you. I sincerely thank you for coming. I wish you joy and peace. I realize that just coming to this might have been a difficult
decision for you and I  truly appreciate your giving me this opportunity to share with you the most wonderful things that I have experienced in life. You are all very special people. I am glad that you have courage and an open mind.
INTRODUCTION
My name is Mark A. Johnson (name Peniel) and I will be your discussion guide for this evening. I have found IT and then founded I-T-S. IT was all that was said in the pamphlets. Summed up IT is a new way of experiencing life which fills a person with joy and peace and excitement. Like your life was when you were a small innocent child. I-T-S stands for many things. Improvement Training Seminar, Inner Transformation System, I Think So, etc.

typed by TV Wahl
4-5-04

Your friend,
Tom

PS- Please send Xerox-type copies of your hand-written notes on seminar #10 and I will type them into a text file if you like. What file type would you
like it in? I am using the Word for Windows program but can convert into nearly any kind of file, once I have the text.

Submitted: Mon, Apr 05, 2004 12:45 am
Subject: Tom’s Address

Hello again Peniel,
Oh oh....I forgot to provide my address in the previous email.

Thomas V. Wahl
200 Radio City Drive
N. Pekin, IL 61554
ph. 309-382-3191

Best regards,
Tom

Submitted: Mon, Apr 05, 2004 1:48 am
Subject: Semantics and Can God Sin

Hello Peniel,
Ah yes, semantics.

se·man·tics (s¹-m²n“t¹ks) n. (used with a sing. or pl. verb). 1. Linguistics. The study or science of meaning in language forms. 2. Logic. The study of relationships between signs and symbols and what they represent. In this sense, also called semasiology.

Oh.... we are SO bound by the human condition and experience! Jesus often talked in spiritual terms, which the disciples often did not relate to nor understand. Us too.

But onward to the reflection: I am reminded that the Bible says in Luke 1:37 For with God nothing shall be impossible. Also Luke 18:27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

So I am drawn to your conclusion that God CAN sin (He has the POWER to sin). But we can also say that it is impossible for God to sin (His very nature
prevents it) and also be correct. Initially this would appear to be two contradictory statements (God can sin and God cannot sin).  So we are drawn to the conclusion that, although God has the POWER to sin, He has not, is not, and will never sin because it is not in his nature which He will NEVER violate. Power may be exercised or not. It is a choice. Man is corrupted by power but God is not, so He always remains true to Himself (unlike us!).

So in all of this, I think that we fully understand and agree on the concepts in spite of our humanity and individuality. Perhaps because of the human condition and personal failures, we can all the better appreciate God's PERFECTION!

I remain your friend,
Tom

Submitted: Mon, Apr 05, 2004 3:30 pm
Subject: Scanning paper copies

Tom,

I SEE! (I did not understand before about the 'physical paper' you were asking or, but I do now! I will get the currently availably images made available as 'paper copies' for you and sent to you (now I understand why you sent your address to me.))

I will take what you have already done and put it up (as a starting point) on the MCWJ website soon. THANK YOU! (I truly know how tedious this is for you, really! I know what a sacrifice you are making and I will tell Jesus to AMPLY bless you for it. Look for the blessing very soon, and tell me what He did!

Also, we will copy Seminar # 10 next (whatever it is) and send it to you. After that, unless and until you say 'stop' we will just scan what we feel is most useful / interesting to the general public and send you copies of that.

Microsoft Word is perfect, it is what I use (but as with you, any format, even TXT inside of the email like this one is acceptable.) Word is excellent because it is so editable, and then savable back as HTML right for the web page.

For your outstanding service, please KEEP all of the copies sent to you (or throw them away, as you see fit.) Perhaps someday, when God makes me rich and famous ;) having the only 'copy' of all of my early works, copied by the author himself, might be of great value! (It might even buy you a cup of coffee!)

And, there might be some information of value in there for you, by all means, glean that if you can.

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Mon, Apr 05, 2004 5:18 pm
Subject: Source references on Holiness Discussion
BCC: KC, DC, JG, Biyn, DM, AP, TW,  SH

Tom,

(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the excellent treatise on "holiness". What is the source of this material? I also appreciate knowing your personal history.
You're most welcome. Most of it is material I have gathered over the years. I typically have a folder under "Spiritual Discussions" then a folder called "Holiness" and in there are various files of source information I have gathered. Some recent, most very old. Remember, between 1975 and 1980 (before Jesus came) I was desperately searching for truth in books. I read literally hundreds of books (and thus, amassed a great wealth of "information". I read mainly psychology, psychiatry, self-help, spirituality, science, religion, etc. I had (before I burned it all, shortly after Jesus came) a huge library of both gathered material, and written material. Alas, I though that compared to Jesus teachings, it was all MERE junk. I kept only a small portion (that which I thought might be helpful to truthseekers in the future, like a few of the workshops and seminars. Most was lost. ALL, however, is right here in my brain. As it is required, it comes out.

Sorry that the personal history was so long, but I love to talk! ;)

Actually my offer had not included a scanning offer but typing directly into a word processor. Scanning produces an image (not text) and typing produces modifiable text useful in many document types. However, I can also do scanning too if you like, although I consider it's usefulness very limited.
We understand now - physical papers only - this is already in the works to you. I will STILL make the scanned images available to others on the website for their perusal and reading, until the 'text' versions get up there.

I see that you have apparently already added me to your BCC list which is OK.
Yes, thanks.

There is also another way to convert your handwritten notes into text and that would be by voice recognition software. This I cannot do but others may have that capability.
There has already been talk of and interest in an audio version of much of this, and OMG and The Box. Alas, there is time for what there is time for. We may pursue that at a later time.

I have also heard that the new OCR software has improved to the point that handwriting may be scanned and converted into text by means of an OCR. How good this software is I cannot say.
Boy, if it could read the scanned images (which I am going to make as a backup for my own personal safety) and turn HANDWRITING into even a remote likeness of the actual text, that would be amazing!

I would not know how to pursue such a venture, but if we could use a sample program and verify its capabilities, I would be willing to invest some money in such a venture.


I will look at what you suggest in the files.
Excellent.

Your friend,
Tom
Your dear friend and servant in Christ,

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Tue, Apr 06, 2004 12:31 am
Subject: Seminars and other writings

Hello Peniel,

From the list of subjects in your workshop that I have recently seen, I am curious and have some questions about the workshops or seminars that you
conduct;

1. Do you still teach seminars?
2. When was the last seminar held? How many attended?
3. Are the seminars always the same?
4. How often do you have seminars?
5. What is the minimum number of students in a seminar?
6. Do you have study material for students or is it lecture type only?
7. Does anyone assist you during your presentations?
8. Where are the seminars held?
9. How many sessions in each seminar?
10. How often is each session held (x times /day or week)?
11. How long is each session?
12. What is the total length of each seminar (days, weeks)?
13. How many seminars have you had to date?
14. How many people have attended your seminars to date?
15. Are your seminars audio or video taped?
16. What time of day are the seminars held?

Some additional questions not related to seminars;
1. What are the titles of any additional pamphlets, books, and/or other materials that you have written? Do you have a short description of these?
2. What are the titles after your name?

Sorry to ask so many questions and, of course, do not answer if you feel that I am being too forward or personal and no offense will be taken (and
none is intended). Thank you.

Best regards brother,
Tom

Submitted: Tue, Apr 06, 2004 4:35 pm
Subject: Amen to God can sin, tag

Subject: Close Discussion "God Can sin", Open discussion, "Adam & Eve"
BCC: KC, DC, JG, Biyn, DM, AP, TW, SH

Tom,

Regarding the "God can sin" discussion and you conclusion, I say, "Amen"!

Now, I would love for you to jump into the Adam & Eve discussion, and the questions posed there about the naming of the animals, etc.

TAG, you're it.

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Wed, Apr 07, 2004 9:45 pm
Subject: Peniel’s Seminar and workshops, and writings

Subject: Peniel's Workshops, Seminars, and other materials
BCC: KC, DC, JG, Biyn, DM, AP, TW, SH

(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
My dear Brother in Christ, Tom,  
From the list of subjects in your workshop that I have recently seen, I am curious and have some questions about the workshops or seminars that you conduct;
Ahh, the workshops and seminars. How much I love to teach them! You will see that most of them were written 'pre-Jesus' (i.e. before 1980) during my 'searching' years, but, there is still a wealth of information and useful tools in them.

1. Do you still teach seminars?
I suspect you mean workshops. Yes. Absolutely, It is what I LIVE FOR!

2. When was the last seminar held? How many attended?
Workshop. Last week, both Wednesday and Thursday nights.

3. Are the seminars always the same?
Workshops. NEVER! They are almost always different depending on who attends, how the attendees want it taught, and the way Jesus runs it. I am the 'personality' and 'person' who's mind and mouth is being used, but, in all of the sessions I have seen done, I strongly suspect that He has His hand up my skirt like a puppet throughout most of them.

4. How often do you have seminars?
Workshops. As often as someone wants them. I tailor to the demand. In the last few months, they have typically been done once or twice a week, and except for a very few, the most recent ones have all been 'freelance' (what I call an 'open' discussion group where we teach about whatever comes up and discuss whatever is of interest right then.)

5. What is the minimum number of students in a seminar?
Workshop. One. I have in the past conducted both seminars and workshops at an 'appointed' time and place, and although 'no human beings' (other than myself) showed up, I gave the seminar just as planned and scheduled. One of them was at the lake and was attended by Jesus, my guardian angel, two squirrels (whom only occasionally paid attention) and a cacophony of birds, insects, trees, grasses and bushes. I cannot say how well the seminar was received by some of the attendees, but Jesus was quite pleased. As a matter of a fact, without all the 'usual' distractions and silly questions from 'people', that particular seminar went perfectly and flawlessly. I gained great merit and grace for it, and I was deeply blessed because of it. I suspect that the squirrels did not get as much out of it as did the trees, but then, they don't both have the same attention spans. 

6. Do you have study material for students or is it lecture type only?
Workshops. It is rare that any pre-workshop 'study' is needed or required. If so, the study material is almost always the bible, and or OMG. Sometimes we draw from The Box, but not often. I often have handouts for after, and some have in-workshop materials, but usually just pencils and paper is sufficient. I can give all of them by memory, without materials, to as small or large an audience is available, without any required preparation. Most of the workshops would be 70% lecture, 20% activity, and 10% discussion / questions & answers session. (In the 'official' workshop. AFTER it is over, typically a group stays for 'further discussion', more Q&A, more in-depth instruction, exercises, demonstrations, etc.) I have seen times when every single person attending the workshop (on L.O.V.E, for example) wouldn't leave when it was done, and stayed at least an additional hour before the first ones 'had' to go. Some stayed for several hours! I always find this 'post-workshop' time to be of excellent quality!

7. Does anyone assist you during your presentations?
BOY! Wouldn't that be nice! (Yes, on occasion I have / need assistants.) The truth is, I ALWAYS could use assistants, and that would make things much smoother and nicer. But, when absolutely necessary, and when not available, I will force attendees to assist. A good example is the various 'skits' preformed during many of the workshops. In one skit, in the workshop on communications, (I believe entitled "Are YOU Talking to ME?") a man and a woman are standing and 'talking / discussing / arguing' with each other regarding 'communication' and relationships. As they are talking, signs are placed on their foreheads reflecting their true feelings, or inner thoughts, for the audience to see. In this skit, I need 4 persons, at least 1 female. What we don't have, we improvise. If I am teaching just ONE student, then he and I both play the parts, and run the signs. The message still comes across.

In the long past, back in the 80s, when I use to give the workshops quite often and had my little 'Air Force" clique, (about a half-dozen persons that I had fully / partially instructed, whom had all realized the worth and value of the work I was doing, and had all volunteered to 'assist' me in my work - my 'followers') they would assist me at the workshops (typically done at a local state park lake, back then, in Georgia where we were stationed. It was wonderful to have assistants to get things ready, prepare the area, hand out the materials, tell others about it to increase the attendance, etc. One day, God shall again bless me with such 'helpers' and perhaps, if He chooses to, pay for their services.

Currently, I have one 'novitiate' into the Penielite G.G.G. Lay Order of Love and Service to Our Lord, and he is at my beck and call. He will do anything I ask. I strongly suspect that if I told him, Jesus told me that you and I are supposed to go tomorrow and stand on the local street corner and start preaching to the masses, I honestly believe he would ask what time was he supposed to be on that corner and should he bring lunch and or dinner. He love God with his whole being, and the book OMG not only 'touched' him it 'changed' him. He has seen his 'calling' and his own personal 'purpose' in my work, and he is 'with me'. God calls, "Peniel?" and I immediately answer, "Ready Lord!" I ask, "Biyn?" and I am certain Biyn would soon respond, "What may I do for you, Peniel?" This 'one' God has sent me, I am certain will be mine for life. I suspect that, in time, God will touch and call others to this work, for He has told me so, and I know He is as good as his Word. He has sent me many volunteers in the past, and when they are sorely needed, He will surely provide again!

8. Where are the seminars held?
I suspect you mean workshops. Wherever the attendees desire. Typically, if it is a one-on-one (just me and one student) we will do it at the student's house; or mine, if that is the student's preference. If there are too many for someone's house, the public library, the lake, wherever there is room. Heck, I have even rented a room at the Holiday Inn so we could Jacuzzi while we ran one workshop! That was fun. In the future, I suppose God will create a great demand, and we will have pre-scheduled dates and times, and hopefully there will be 'too many people' come, so that next time we will have to get a larger place. I can dream can't I?

9. How many sessions in each seminar?
OK, it is time to explain THE Seminar, and The Group of Workshops.

There are 'currently' 26 workshops. Each workshop is on a particular 'subject'. Workshop Experience # 5 is titled, "L.O.V.E (Love's Objective - Various Expressions)". In this workshop, the attendees learn all about Love. What it is, where it comes from, what makes it grow, what kills it. What nourishes it, what Love needs. What love wants. The 5 levels of love. The 5 vehicles through which love travels. What each of the 5 levels of love: brings, gives, does, cause, and creates. How to love. The levels of purity of love. The rules of love. etc.

There is only one 'seminar' (per se), but it is broken up into a four or five day seminar with one session each evening until all 4 or 5 have been attended. The seminar is really an 'extremely short course' in life, God, personalities, relationships, power, and personal integrity. It is a very intense and rough excursion into a barrage of behavioral modification, Maslow, Pavlov, Napoleon Hill, group therapy, t-group exercises, emotional intensity implementation; if you will, a virtual cornucopia of psychological and psychiatric 'methods' aimed at effecting a 'real change' in a person's attitudes, beliefs, mind-set, bag, trip, deal, etc. in an extremely short span of time. (Typically, 4 days of 4 hour sessions.) The ITS (Improvement Training Seminar) is designed to effect major changes in people in a very short course through EVERY effective and drastic means I have learned. (And trust me, if done well, it is quite a trip just to experience!) It is very similar to the EST training that many people in the 70s and 80s experienced, except, my ITS has a very 'spiritual' slant and employs a much wider range of 'methods' (and processes) to literally 'force' persons to change. It is not generally seen as a 'pleasant' experience, until it is half-over. We typically charge some pre-determined fee (typically, $100 per person or $150 per couple or $175 per family) ahead of time. This 'charge' is used in session one during the 'You are an Asshole" process. And at the end of session one, the collected money is returned in full to the attendees. (We never REALLY charge for any of the workshops or seminars, BUT, for the necessary 'process' in session one, it is important that the person feel as if they have been cheated out of something 'valuable' to them other than their time. It is a ruse, apologized for and explained at the end of session one, when the money is always fully returned.) Before attending this ITS seminar, each attendee is required to sign a contract, and agree (on the contract) to do certain things. This again, is a ruse used during the sessions to make a point. It is explained and apologized for in Session 2.

It has been a long time since I held a "Seminar". Too bad, they were very effective and quite entertaining. I made many life-long friends due to their participation in one of these Seminars. I suspect, one day, God will want them started up again, and in His good time, we will do so. In the mean time, the workshops are all meat and potatoes!

10. How often is each session held (x times /day or week)?
Seminar:1 x per day, 4 or 5 times in a week. Workshops: one session only, typically 3 hours with a 'after-workshop' group get-together.

11. How long is each session?
Seminar: Typically 4 hours. Workshops:  one session only, typically 3 hours with a 'after-workshop' group get-together.

12. What is the total length of each seminar (days, weeks)?
Seminar: 4 hours a day X 4 sessions = 16 hours. Also, typically it is VERY important to keep the entire seminar 'happening' with in a week. The psychological impacts fade with time, so it is best to slam them hard and fast. It is ver typical to do a Wed - Saturday with Saturday being the 'You Get IT' day.
Workshop: There are 26, held 'as demanded'. I would love to hold two or three a week, if there was enough demand. I would love to have some 'combos' on the weekends, as I have done in the past. I am quite certain that almost ALL of this is for the 'near' future, when Dad turns me loose to 'do my thing' and allows me to teach large groups of people. From where will they come? God only knows. ;-)

13. How many seminars have you had to date?
If you mean seminars and workshops combined, at least a couple of hundred, and maybe as many as five hundred. But, this is of course spread over the last 25 years. There have been MANY more people attend the workshops than ever did the seminars. I remember that these type of 'self-motivational, self-help' seminars were very popular back in the late 70s and all through the 80s. But since then they have faded in popularity. The workshops have always been popular. 

14. How many people have attended your seminars to date?
If you mean seminars and workshops, hundreds. At least two hundred, maybe as many as five hundred. But, I have been doing this for 25 years, also.

15. Are your seminars audio or video taped?
Seminar: Not allowed! Workshops: VIDEO / PICTURES not allowed, audio OK and encouraged! (It would be nice to one day have audio tapes of the workshops!)

16. What time of day are the seminars held?
Seminar: Typically from 7pm to 11pm, Wed - Fri, then Sat 1:00pm to 5:00 pm (but very few leave then!) They all want to stay and discuss IT.
Workshops: weekday evenings: typically 7pm to 10pm (and the after-discussion goes on until the last person leaves.) Weekends: typically 1:00pm til 4:00 and sometimes a combo on til 7:00pm.

Some additional questions not related to seminars;

1. What are the titles of any additional pamphlets, books, and/or other materials that you have written? Do you have a short description of these?
This is in-work. Unfortunately, due to the voluminous, and important, group discussions recently, I am unsure when 'we' will get to it. (or rather, when Biyn will get to it!)

2. What are the titles after your name?
Do you mean "G.G.G."? That stands for "for the Greater Glory of God". It is 'part' of my name, Peniel G.G.G. Peniel is fully and completely devoted to serving God, and to bringing about His Greater Glory. Peniel does this by assisting others to realize both their own worth, and the great value that God places on them. And, in this, they will come to love God more, and give Him Greater Glory, as is His desire.

If instead you mean the CNE, MCSE, SSE, GCE, BMF; these are my computer engineering degrees and titles, but I don't use them with Peniel, only with Mark Johnson (my legal born-name.)

Sorry to ask so many questions and, of course, do not answer if you feel that I am being too forward or personal and no offense will be taken (and none is intended). Thank you.
I live for questions. My life is an open book. I hide nothing, I expose everything. I am as I seem to be. BUT, I am a common sinful man, only by the Great Glory and mercy of God am I able to serve Him in whatever ways He allows me. I pray that what He does through me is of some service, value, or at least entertainment for you, my brothers and sisters in Christ!

Best regards brother,
Tom

Peace, my brother Tom!

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Sat, Apr 10, 2004 12:10 am
Subject: Got the package

Hello Peniel,

I just today received the material you sent. It arrived in good condition. The job looks easy enough and I am eager to begin processing. I will have the added benefit of absorbing what's there as I go (a bonus for me!). Can't say when I'll be done.

Peace and joy to you Peniel.
Tom

Submitted: Sat, Apr 10, 2004 4:22 pm
Subject: Color copies coming

Tom,

My Dear friend in Christ,

DON'T PUT TOO MUCH EFFORT INTO TRANSCRIBING THE TEXT, YET!

I have done some experimenting and have found that if I print the text that you have, only instead of "greyscale" I make the copies in color, they is VERY much more readable, clear, and sharp.

JUST READ THROUGH WHAT YOU HAVE, and decide what part you might want to type in first when we send you the COLOR SET next week (whatever is of greatest interest to you, OR, whatever you think would be funnerest or besterest to type in first (your criteria, your choice!)

I have also now copied 2 more 'volumes' of 'Various Writings'. I have a full set of COLOR COPIES of everything scanned in to date (INCLUDING a new COLOR SET of the black and white stuff that we already sent you!) We will be sending that off to you early next week! In addition to all of the copies of the scanned pages, I am also sending you a set of "COPY TESTS" (they have the upper two corners cut off so you won't accidentally consider them as part of the copysets.) You will be able to see that I made a good choice in P4 as far as paper type, color, grade and quality to get a really nice and readable set of copies for you.

It is MUCH more expensive this way, BUT, the material we are dealing with is 'priceless' in my opinion! This is good, 24 pound acid free special paper and the color inks being used are high-quality, photo-enhanced, and fade resistant. I would strongly recommend that when you are through transcribing in the pages that you get them 3-hole punched and put them in binders to preserve them.

I have had these books now, some for almost 30 years! I wish I had bought better paper originally than just cheap 'school' notebook paper! (Who knew?!) As you will see from the color copies you will receive, much of what I wrote long ago is now on very faded and yellowed paper, some of it is getting very dry and brittle. Thank God we are finally preserving copies of it all!

PLEASE WAIT until you receive this to actually start transcribing text for us, I am sure you will be glad you did (as this color is SO MUCH BETTER and so much more readable!)

Again, everything that we send to your is YOUR'S TO KEEP, forever, and you are under absolutely NO OBLIGATION whatsoever. (You could decide not to type in one stinkin' word and I would love you just as much.)

I am so pleased that you made your offer of typing in 'some' of this work. If nothing else, if finally motivated me to get it all copied so that there would be no chance of this existing material being 'lost' if something ever happened to the original (and only copy.)

I still have several volumes to get copied. All in good time. The next 'volume' I will do will contain the Workshop 10 you asked about. I do not know how much material is in it (many of the workshops just have a one-page outline that I use to guide me as I teach it, some are more detailed.) You will probably receive that set of color copies in about two weeks. As I scan a volume in, I will get it to you in the mail ASAP. This way, you can choose from among a wider variety of material to decide what you want to transcribe first.

If you are interested, EVERYTHING that I have scanned in to date is now available (as JPG images) on the website. The stuff you have already been sent B&W copies of is also there. You might 'browse' through some of it, and perhaps decide in advance what you will transcribe first from there.


Peace,

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Sat, Apr 10, 2004 10:52 pm
Subject: Physical change, time

Peniel,
I think that you are going to too much trouble with the colored copies, special paper, etc. But this is really your project and it will be done the way you want. I am only too glad to help and I will wait per your instructions.

You already know from your computer background that the best way to preserve media is to have multiple copies and at different locations. Of course I will save the copies that you send me. This conversion project will be fun for me and hopefully useful to you and perhaps ultimately useful to many others as well.

I am nearly finished with OMGAYTTM and on p. 216 you say time is the measure of physical change. I agree. Is time also the measure of events? I would suppose that, before creation, God did things. Did those things happen in a certain order? If so, could this be called a 'time sequence'? But I know God is not bound by time (I know and accept St. Augustine's concept about time).

I have long been fascinated by the concept of "time".

Happy Easter!!!!!!
Tom

Submitted: Mon, Apr 12, 2004 7:05 am
Subject: Physics and God

Hello Peniel,
Your responses continue to intrigue me. In quantum mechanics, tests made with "connected" photons imply that there is intelligence or choice in "actions at a distance" (cosmic distances even). In radioactive decay which particle 'decides' to mutate? In the dual nature of light, what is it when no one is looking? In all of these examples individual and "paired" particles or photons behave as though they are intelligent and, if so, are they? I suspect that the statement "Lord of hosts" may include and also refer to even the smallest of particles, if intelligent. This, then, may be the greatest understatement in the Bible about the physical universe!

God is awesome!
Tom

Submitted: Mon, Apr 12, 2004 7:39 am
Subject: Is hell hot?

Hello Peniel,
I have a bit of trouble with your statements:

[I suspect that immediately after dying, our 'destined knowledge' will be given back to us, and we will then see 'all things' clearly and rightly. This is why those whom will be going to hell will not have a qualm with this fact, they will KNOW that is the 'right', fair and just thing to do. They will go willingly.]

Jesus described hell in graphic detail in Luke chapter 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20  And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21  And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22  And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23  And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24  And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25  But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26  And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27  Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28  For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

This does not sound like the kind of place that anyone would willingly go to. Then I am also reminded of the evil spirits in Matt. 8:28  And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29  And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Hell, then, is a place of torment? See, also, this one,
Rev. 14:11  And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

A little expansion on these, please, will be appreciated.

My best regards,
Tom

Submitted: Mon, Apr 12, 2004 4:17 pm
Subject: God and time

Subject: The Love of God, Love in general, our non-Christina brothers

BCC: DC, JG, Biyn, DM, AP, TW, SH

(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom,

I am nearly finished with OMGAYTTM and on p. 216 you say time is the measure of physical change. I agree. Is time also the measure of events?

Your question poses a paradox. One of the primary definitions of an event is: A phenomenon or occurrence located at a single point in space-time, regarded as the fundamental observational entity in relativity theory.

Being as an 'event' must take place in 'space-time' and must be at a 'unique' space-time coordinate, then this precludes any 'events' happening before time began, and, also is precluded from occurring if there is no 'space' for it to occur in. Again our human words do not do well in describing things of the spirit. Whatever 'took place' (see, even the very describing of it implies that it 'took a place') before space and time were created could NOT have been considered an 'event'. As a matter of fact, I suspect that 'NOTHING' (that is, No Thing) took place, occurred, or happened, prior to the first 'creation' by God. Indeed, it is a very proper way to say it thus:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

And and even more appropriate way to say it:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

(I might suggest you see OMGAYTTM Chapter 19, "The Word" which goes into great detail about God, the beginning, the Word, etc.)

I would suppose that, before creation, God did things. Did those things happen in a certain order?

Actually, there was "nothing" (No Thing) for God to do 'before' the first creation, for there were not yet any 'things'. God - only - was. And even this word 'was' implies a time-frame that did not exist. No, before the first creation, God existed, and did nothing. (Again, for God to 'do' some'thing' implies both time and things. Neither was in existence, so neither was possible, in our understanding.)

The truth of it was really, God "INSTANTLY" created. Because time is defined and came into existence at creation, then without 'time', there is only 'instantly' (i.e. with no time delay!)

So, "In the beginning (before time existed) was God whom instantly created 'things'. As there were now both God and 'things', now God could 'do' something (some - "thing".) In fact, the creation itself was the first 'do-ing' of a thing and Creation itself is indeed a 'thing', separate and identifiable 'outside of God'. It has it's existence separately from God. Granted, God holds it in existence, BUT, as previously explained, God is not now missing some part of Himself due to this newly created thing or things. God is still whole, complete, and infinite. He does not NEED this created thing, and He exists perfectly and completely without it. Yet, there it is! It is different from Him, and in this way, it is 'separate' from Him. Identifiable as separate from Him.

Now, it is supposed (and accepted by many) that there were multiple acts of creation by God. In the beginning, God created the 'Heavens' and the earth... The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep.

Some have proposed that by 'heavens' it was meant that God created all of the 'angelic beings' and being as they were all then 'with God', this 'with God' or better yet, 'being in God's close presence' is 'heaven'. This was the 'heavens' referred to in the creation. Also, in this same 'act' of God's creative power, God also created the 'earth', without form, and void, and with darkness on the face of the deep. This second part of the first act of creation is proposed to be representative of the entire physical universe, not just the small globe called the 'Earth'. The reasons are many. For one, the sun had not yet been formed. For another, the very description is very reminiscent of what scientist today know about the early universe. It was formless, and void. There was no light, just a massive plasmatic ball of expanding energy. It was a long time before the pressures and temperatures were right and the first stars formed and 'kicked on'. (Let there be LIGHT!) and there was light!

Now, at a later time, God takes the slime of the earth and forms it up into a man and in a separate act of creation, God breathes into this man a soul, and man becomes alive. (i.e. as much went into the creation of one man's soul as went into creating ALL of the angels and ALL of the entire universe put together!) This is why each person's soul is so valuable and wonderful. (What would it profit a man to gain all of the world's wealth, but loose his immortal soul?)

Again, the write of Genesis has chosen such astoundingly perfect and correct words that I am in awe of God's obvious hand in this writing! 

If so, could this be called a 'time sequence'?

As explained before, without another 'thing' other than God, there can be no 'sequence', nor time, nor event, nor happening. No thing. Nothing. ONLY Instant Creation must needs follow the statement "God IS!" or - "In the beginning, God was." Unless He does something, it must END there. And God's power of creation is indeed the best appropriate thing for God to do 'first'. (DO you see how even these terms are all tied to 'time' and 'space' and a timeline!)

Now you might say, Before time, God was! He was alone (all three of Him.) He loved Himself! His love for Himself 'desired' to be expressed in a variety of ways. One way God knew He could express His own love of Himself was to 'create'. What would He create? Other beings with their own free-will, power, personality, and choice. He would create a myriad and diverse set of groups of them, for when the infinite power of God acts upon the 'void' of nothingness, the results is typically a 'multitude' of limited, distinct, individual and varied beings and things. This was Creation Act #1. The 'heavens' and the 'earth'. The angels in their billions and in their distinct 7 separate choirs of heaven, and the physical universe with all the matter and energy that it contains.

The angels were 'with God' and there was therefore 'heaven'. However, after some 'time' (which we now have!) some of the angels utilized their free-will and choice and decided that they chose to 'not be in God's presence', and they fell from God's grace. The became vain and proud, and they said to themselves, "Why should we serve in heaven when we can 'rule' elsewhere!" But, there was no other place for them, for there was only 'with God'. Indeed, some have proposed that when the bad-angels (now referred to as demons) were 'cast out' of heaven that they came into the physical universe! There was no one else here, and they therefore came here to be 'as far away from God as they could'. We know that God has prepared a special place for them, called Hell, but are they actually there 'now' in this time reference that we humans exist in this material world in? If so, how is it that these demons sometimes 'tempt' us here and now. And how could these demons have been in possession of certain humans that Jesus encountered, and cast them out. How could this be if all of the demons were cast into hell, and if they were all there and there to stay?

Again, many reasons, but consider this: Eve encountered Satan in the garden. How is it that Satan was in the Garden of Eden, when God is supposed to have cast Satan and His followers into Hell? Did God let Satan come 'out of Hell' and into the garden God had prepared for man? (Or, as some have proposed, is this universe where the angels came to when the 'fell' or were 'cast out' of heaven.)

I digress.

But I know God is not bound by time (I know and accept St. Augustine's concept about time). I have long been fascinated by the concept of "time".
As have I. I would recommend you read Einstein's treatise on Special Relativity and the book, "1, 2, 3,Infinity" by George Gamow. They should both be very helpful in your understanding of the concept of 'time' and 'infinities'.

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Tue, Apr 13, 2004 1:55 pm
Subject: PRIVATE discussion between Peniel and Tom

BCC: NONE

Tom,

(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Peniel,
Your suggestion:
[As have I. I would recommend you read Einstein's treatise on Special Relativity and the book, "1, 2, 3,Infinity" by George Gamow. They should both be very helpful in your understanding of the concept of 'time' and 'infinities']

My response:
Yes, you have some interesting observations. I have indeed read a number of books on Einstein's theories as well as other related topics such as Richard Feinman's book QED (Quantum Electro-Dynamics). One of the most unusual books I read along these lines is 'Creation's Tiny Mystery" by Robert V. Gentry (he says it's the ‘fingerprint of God'). These all help explain the physical universe but not the spiritual reality (as the Bible does). So I have come to the conclusion that no human (except Jesus) understands concepts like 'time", 'space", 'space-time continuum", 'spirit", 'energy", or very much of anything else. I still think it's fun to think and wonder and be amazed by it all.
Again, although man's knowledge of these amazing and mystical areas of God's universe is limited, it is not forbidden or even wrong to pursue a deeper truth about them. I have found that in coming to a deeper awareness and knowledge and understanding regarding the truth about the universe, I have come to a much deeper appreciation of God's power and glory (as reflected in the universe.) I think of all of the beautiful, fascinating and mysterious things man has found deep in space, with our modern telescopes, and realize that He put them there just for us! For earlier, man had no idea about them! They were for our pleasure and entertainment!

I, like you believe that Jesus 'knew all things' and therefore clearly understood all of the universal laws. I suspect that Adam, also, originally had this same 'knowledge' instilled directly into his mind by God, for he was intended to be both 'caretaker' of the garden, and also 'Master of the physical universe'.

I also suspect that this 'knowledge' is destined for all of us, but due to the nature of Adam's fall, and original sin, we humans have lost this 'prized possession'.


I know NOTHING. Yet let me ask what you think of the following (your eyes only):
(NOT CCd!) - BUT WHY NOT??

Spirit/Physical
by Thomas V. Wahl (c)2000
Statement
This is my thinking:
1. Before anything material existed, Spirit only was.
True.

2. After everything material is gone, Spirit only remains.
In reality, all 'things' are spirit, for the universe is truly a 'thought' in the mind of God. Whether He decides to continue to sustain the physical 'reality' past judgment is His choice. It is almost a 'moot point' as the difference between what we call 'physical reality (the universe) and 'spirit' is merely one of semantics and viewpoint. Since 'all things' are held in existence in the mind of God, and since the 'material universe' is merely a set of theoretical points of energy, in a coordinatial system, extremely complex, yet, limited and finite, obeying a set of laws and rules, and in his 'reality' do we live our lives, and breathe, and move. In reality, this reality is but a shadow, a picture, a dream in God's mind. You cannot change 'reality' just as you cannot blow out a 'picture' of a candle. For 'reality' as we know it in a material plane, is about as real as a shadow, or a picture of a candle.

Just as you have guessed, SPIRIT is all that is truly real. God (the spiritual being in three distinct persons) holds all other 'spirits' (personalities) in existence in much the same way as He holds the physical universe in existence. In fact, the universe is merely another 'mirroring' of Him, less noble than a person, yet much larger in apparent scope and complexity.

3. Therefore, it seems to me that the only enduring, ultimate reality and building material of the universe must be Spirit.
You have indeed spoken well here.

3a. There may be little or no difference between the seen and unseen, the visible and invisible, the spirit and material, heaven and earth.
In reality, that which has the higher existence is the 'unseen', the 'invisible, and Spirit. What you can see and touch and feel is but a shadow of reality, for it is here merely as a stage upon which we are allowed to live our lives 'in time' in order to work out our relation with God and salvation.

3b. The spirit may conform to any configuration.
No. The spirit may only 'be' what God has made it to be. In reality, spiritual entities are indivisible, immutable, unchangeable. They are not composed of any 'parts' and therefore are not mutable, destructible, or disectable. With the exception of 'free will', personality, and 'level of nobility', all spirits are indistinguishable and made of the exact same 'essence', the Love of God (God's Spirit - the Holy Spirit!) Angelic beings are less 'noble' than human spirits, for they contain 'less' of God's 'essence' in them. Hence, the angels are pleased to be our servants and guardians, for that is there proper place. We human spirits are less 'noble' that God Himself, for there is more of Him in Himself than in us. Therefore, we human spirits are pleased to worship God, for this is our proper purpose. Among the 3 levels of 'nobility' of spiritual beings, there are also varying 'personalities' (much about this has already been discussed in previous archives.) In the Triune Godhead, there are the Three distinct Persons, each with their own unique personality and 'purpose' and 'function', yet, they share a single nature.

Humans come in a plethora of varying personalities, yet each with the same 'nobility' of essence.

Angels, come in an even greater variety, being that among them there are7 distinct levels of 'nobility'. Seraphim and Cherubim are far above the 'Angels' and "Arc-angels'. IN addition, during the fall of the demons, some angels out or each of the 7 choirs fell, so there are the same choirs of demons as their are of angelic beings. Lucifer, originally, was second only to God Himself in power, beauty, and nobility, so Lucifer was the head Seraphim, noblest of all the 7 choirs. However, when the first MAN (Adam) came along, Adam was so much nobler than Lucifer as to make Lucifer almost seemingly insignificant. Adam was a 'son of God', Lucifer was a 'servant' of God. The difference would be like the way we view and treat our children compared to our pets. My dog light be loyal, faithful, obedient and trustworthy and might have even saved my life once, but, my house and fortune will be left to my children, NOT to my pet, regardless of how good the pet is and how bad the child is.

3c. If matter and energy are two different forms of the same thing (E=MCC), then every particle of matter and all energy must be spirit.
Oh! You are getting very clear. Spirit IS energy! But, that 'spirit' which makes up a mere 'world' such as earth is insignificant when compared to the amount of 'spirit' contained in one human soul (personality!) But, you are absolutely right in your analysis.

Well, maybe some day we will know but maybe then it will not matter one iota.
I suspect that immediately after dying, our 'destined knowledge' will be given back to us, and we will then see 'all things' clearly and rightly. This is why those whom will be going to hell will not have a qualm with this fact, they will KNOW that is the 'right', fair and just thing to do. They will go willingly.

Wondering together,
Let us continue in our wanderings and wonderings!

Tom

Peace, Tom.

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Wed, Apr 14, 2004 7:23 am
Subject: The Love of God, Love in general, our non-Christina brothers

BCC: AP, Biyn, DM, JG, RF, SH, TW, Verk

My dear Tom,

(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Peniel,
I have a bit of trouble with your statements:

[I suspect that immediately after dying, our 'destined knowledge' will be given back to us, and we will then see 'all things' clearly and rightly. This is why those whom will be going to hell will not have a qualm with this fact, they will KNOW that is the 'right', fair and just thing to do. They will go willingly.]

Jesus described hell in graphic detail in Luke chapter 16:19  There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20  And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21  And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22  And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23  And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and see the Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24  And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25  But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivest thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26  And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27  Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldst send him to my father's house:
28  For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

This does not sound like the kind of place that anyone would willingly go to. Then I am also reminded of the evil spirits in Matt. 8:28  And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29  And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Hell, then, is a place of torment? See, also, this one,
Rev. 14:11  And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

A little expansion on these, please, will be appreciated.

My best regards,
Tom

Indeed, you have only touched on the tip of the iceberg regarding 'hell' as a place of 'eternal torment, suffering, and separation from God'. AND, I agree completely with all of this.

You see, because I didn't spend an extra five minutes and two pages explaining myself in detail in the last email, now here I am having to clarify what was 'misperceived' about my initial message!

In my earlier email, I did NOT mean to imply that I though 'hell' was a nice place. In fact, it is the most terrible, unimaginable torturous place there could be. And far worse than it's 'torments' it causes man, it is a place of utter hopelessness! Once you are cast into 'hell' (that place of eternal damnation and torture and separation from God) there is no chance for reprieve or stay. This surely must magnify the excruciating agony that those poor souls endure.

(I will have to explain in a LATER discussion, why a person WOULD want and choose to go to this terrible place!)

Also, Tom, you and I are talking about different places! There is not only 'hell' (which I keep single-quoting around to mark it off from your hell.) There is also "Sheol", Hades, Limbo, and Purgatory. There is also, as you mentioned: Abraham's bosom (which is NOT heaven!)

(I know, here comes a whole new discussion thread regarding the 'true nature of' places not in this universe.)

But, in my usual Platonic way, let me ask you a series of 'leading' questions to tangle you up and turn you around (like we did in the 'Can God Sin' thread) in order to assist you to a clearer understanding of these 'places' we are discussing.

1.) In time, as we know it, After Adam and Eve 'fell' and before Jesus Christ came, lived and died, was man (any man) able to get into heaven?
2.) When a person dies, does he or she 'immediately' go somewhere?
3.) Will there be a 'general' judgment, at which Jesus will separate the good from the evil, and based on this judgment, will then one group go to be with God, and the other group go away from God? (Recall MT 8:29!)
4.) In #3, is each and every person whom has ever lived or will ever live included?
5.) In #3, are the 'angels and demons' also 'judged'? (Recall MT 8:29!)
6.) Have the angels and demons 'already; (in the past time) been judged?
7.) Immediately after Jesus died, and before He rose again, where did he go and what did he do there?
9.) Immediately upon Jesus death on the cross, did some previously 'dead' people get up and walk around the earth again?
10.)  If so, why, and for what purpose? Where had these people been?
11.) In addition to the angels and demons, AND, humans, are there any other 'judgments'?
12.) Where did Abraham, a good and just man go when he died?
13.) Where did Moses go?

KEY POINTS NOW:

14.) In the story you gave, WHERE and WHEN and HOW did Lazarus go right after his death?
15.) Where and when did the rich man go?
16.) Why did the rich man talk to Abraham, NOT God? (If Lazarus was in 'heaven' is Not GOD the decision maker there? Or, is Abraham in charge?)
17.) According to the 'implied' moral of this particular story LU 16:19: Those whom have a 'good and comfortable life' on earth will be in hell, while those whom are poor and downtrodden in this life will be in Abraham's bosom (an apparently good place.) In this mortal life you are eitheir 'comforted or tormented', and, in the after-life, your role will be reversed. There is absolutely no mention (or even implication) of these persons being judge based on their faith, grace, God's mercy, the person's good or evil nature, ther person's good or evil deeds, or any such judgment based on their personal moral choices or decision - only on their God-determined circumstances (for whom was it that sent a child to the rich parent's house, but God. And whom was it that sent a child to the poor parents house, but God. I also assume that Lazarus' wounds were not self-inflicted or self-chosen, so I assume that these points are also taken as God-determined suffering for Lazarus.) Is the implication of this particular story correct or RIGHT? Does God send people into ETERNAL (key word) punishment and torment, OR, ETERNAL BLISS based ONLY on their 'circumstances' in life (typically God-determined) and in no way is this determination affected by those person's morality, dignity, integrity, choices, faith, grace, or beliefs?
18.) Are there 'any other places' excepting, Eternal Heaven, Eternal Hell, and the physical universe?
19.) Could there have been some 'temporary' spiritual places?
20.) If so, what might these 'temporary spiritual places' be like?


May God give you wisdom!

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted: Wed, Apr 14, 2004 11:22 am
Subject: The Matrix, the true nature of the physical universe

Subject: God and the nature of the Universe, The Matrix

BCC: AP, Biyn, DM, JG, RF, SH, TW, Verk

My dear Tom,

(Yours in red, mine in black and blue for emphasis):
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Peniel,
Your responses continue to intrigue me. In quantum mechanics, tests made with "connected" photons imply that there is intelligence or choice in "actions at a distance" (cosmic distances even). In radioactive decay which particle 'decides' to mutate? In the dual nature of light, what is it when no one is looking? In all of these examples individual and "paired" particles or photons behave as though they are intelligent and, if so, are they? I suspect that the statement "Lord of hosts" may include and also refer to even the smallest of particles, if intelligent. This, then, may be the greatest understatement in the Bible about the physical universe!

Indeed, as man climbs the mountain of knowledge, towards the summit of Truth, he is likely to be very surprised at what he finds there!

You do remember me telling that for a long time, between 1975 and 1980 I pursued Truth in books, and I read (and retained) a GREAT QUANTITY of ideas. Many of these 'facts' were later coalesced by Jesus in my 'moment of enlightenment' and have subsequently 'shown' me many things I did not know or understand before. Unfortunately, most of this 'super-knowledge', as I like to call it, is extremely difficult to express or relay in mere words. And, even after many words have been used, it typically appears to me to be only a 'hollow shell' of what I know and attempted to express regarding the subject... but, again, I will try on this one.

Many years ago, just after the discovery of the 'quarks' and their 'nature' I realized and postulated a theory called 'The Matrix' (and subsequently, the movie is somewhat 'reminiscent' of my theory - very spooky!)

The Matrix is a 'description' of the universe, as it really is, in its 'whole' and entirety. It requires some prepared ground to understand, so, let me do a little digging here in your mind. (I hope I strike a vein or gold!)

Consider this scenario:
Last night, while you were sound asleep, some 'advanced beings' quietly came into your room and zapped you with a 'brain-beam' which forced your physical brain into a deep dreamlike state from which you would not awake. Then, they surgically cut open your skull, and removed your 'physical brain' including all of its parts and a small portion of your upper spinal cord with it. They then placed this 'organ' of yours into a jar of orange liquid (nutrient solution to keep your physical brain alive) and took the jar with your brain in it to their waiting spaceship. Off they flew to the far side of the moon (facing away from the earth) and landed there to perform some experiments on your brain.

In the 'common physical reality' (the one most of us experience daily) your family found your physical body the next morning minus its physical brain, and assumed that you had committed cranial Hari-Kari (somehow). They then subsequently buried your earthly remains and had a nice ceremony for you, after which they all divided up your 'stuff' that you left here on earth amongst themselves. This 'common physical reality' then went on without any hint of 'you'.

Now. Once you and the aliens are safely on the far side of the moon, they hooked your brain up to their supercomputer that can perfectly mimic the electro-chemical signals that would normally come into your physical brain, just exactly in the same way as your physical eyes, ears, nose, tongue, skin, spinal cord, and all other possible inputs to your physical brain would. In addition, the orange liquid is pumped through your blood vessels in your brain and provides the exact required nutrients and waste removal processes that your blood stream would have. The difference, is that the aliens are fully in control of the 'computer' which provides your 'sentient inputs' now.

They then begin to perform experiments on your brain, in an attempt to find out about the 'true nature' of man. They have 'taped' all of your normal daily activities, everything that you would normally see, hear, smell, taste, feel, and sense, and all of this is stored in the 'life-simulation' computer.

They begin their experiment, and although it has been a month of 'real time' in the 'common physical reality', and your physical body is now rotting in the grave, in your 'mind' you have only had some fairly typical dreams 'last night' in your perception.

The aliens watch on screens as they allow your brain to experience the normal sensations of your 'waking up', and when you send the signals from your brain to your eyelid's muscles to 'open your eyes', the computer makes it feel and look as if that is exactly what happened. You feel the normal resistance of your eyes against your eyelids as they 'apparently' open, and as your eyelids pass beyond your pupils, you 'see' your bedroom ceiling, as you expected to.

You 'THINK' (and therefore perceive and believe) that you get up, change out of your pajamas, clean up, shave, put on your sweat pants, and go for a nice jog around the neighborhood. Everything 'looks' and 'feels' normal, right, correct, perfect.

Anytime your 'brain' commands something to happen, (such as 'look to the left') then the alien computer perfectly simulates every response to your brain that your 'old physical body' would have experienced and subsequently 'informed' your brain about, with perfect clarity.

Since 'you' (the REAL you, that which is a spirit, your 'personality') can ONLY experience this fundamental physical universe 'experientially' via 'sensuality' (i.e. you can only indirectly come to know and understand about the nature of the physical universe via second hand information, passed to 'you' through your senses and then into your brain) you are NOT able to tell if this scenario I have proposed to you is 'actual reality' or merely your own 'personally perceived reality'.

Perhaps when you see your wife at breakfast, and both of your 'interact' in your normal way, what you thought was your wife was in reality just some electronic signals in a computer telling the 'sensory-input apparatus' what electro-chemical signals to send so that your brain 'perceived' that she said, 'Good mornin', hun!" and in reality, this morning she is alone with her coffee and still grieving your apparent self-inflicted brain-ectomy. (They never did find your physical brain, and there were two proposed theories to explain this: 1.) your brain had self-imploded, or, 2.) your brain had been so small to begin with that once you got your skull opened up, the huge inrush of air into that vacuum in your head blew your brain (small as it was) out and it was probably then eaten by a dust mite, mistaking it for just a flake of dead skin.)

From this point on, I will describe the computer controlled reality that you are experiencing 'as if' if were reality, since you cannot tell the difference.

You get home from jogging, clean up, and go to your computer to read your email. You are expecting some emails from Peniel, and you read an email exactly like this one, proposing to you this possible 'Orange Liquid and a Trip through the Universe' scenario. As you read it, you begin to wonder, if in 'reality' you are a disembodied brain on the far side of the moon, or, if you are 'truly' in reality just a victim of an elaborate Penielite plot to make you 'suspect' this as a possibility.

You decide at this point in reading the email (as I am proposing the idea to you) that a TEST is in order.

What 'test' can you perform to clearly and accurately determine which is the 'real' reality, your normal life (as you knew it a few days ago simply continuing), or, the possibility of your alien-connection?

Most people will come to the intended conclusion that, "There is NO way to be 'sure' about reality." In fact, many times, our 'tests' of reality are so limited as to not even truly tell us anything about the 'true nature' or 'reality'.

Were you aware that there are 'different' realities? (Here, I have demonstrated to you two of them: the 'commonly perceived reality' and the 'personally perceived reality'.) USUALLY, a person's 'personally perceived reality' is in total agreement with, alignment to, and subsequent OF 'the commonly perceived reality', BUT, as demonstrated, not necessarily.

Now, the aliens decide to alter your 'reality'. The next morning, as you are having your normal breakfast coffee and discussion with your wife, she suddenly 'appears' to just levitate right up out of her chair, and, while maintaining a 'sitting position' is just hanging there a few feet above the table. You find this 'amazing' and mention it to her, to which she replies, "Don't be silly, I'm sitting right here in this chair." She then mentions something about a possible brain-fart, and you, stunned, now watch her slowly descend to her normal position.

At work, more people begin to levitate on you. (So the alien computer makes you 'perceive') In each case, the person levitating denies this, and suggests that you perhaps need to seek a psychiatrist. You begin to seriously doubt your 'view' about reality especially concerning these levitating persons, because it does not seem to fit in with all that you have previously learned about the 'fundamental reality of the physical universe' (a third reality!)

You begin to suspect that your 'personal perceived reality' is somehow partially 'skewed' from both the 'commonly perceived reality' (because everyone else is in agreement with each other that you are not experiencing what they are experiencing) and you also strongly suspect that your 'personally perceived reality' is not in proper alignment with the 'fundamental physical reality' because you know all about gravity and how it works, and these people are unlikely to be able to defy it as you are perceiving them to do. This suspicion is of course reinforced by the persons denying their levitation feat.

You seek psychiatric help. Then the aliens really decide to screw with you! When you go to meet the psychiatrist, and you explain about your apparent 'delusions' regarding some people levitating, the doctor says, "Oh, you mean like this!" as he slowly levitates up into the air, apparently both controlling his levitation and with full awareness that he is indeed levitating.

You say, "Doc, what are you doing? Am I crazy?" and the doctor says, "I am demonstrating to you 'levitation'. Is this what the people did that you saw?" You answer, "Yes, but they all told me that they weren't levitating, and that I was delusional. This is why I sought you out? By the way, how are you doing that?"

You check for hidden wires, none. You thoroughly examine the floating doctor at his request, and you decide that this is no trick. You then ask the doctor to levitate you, and he complies. You and he are now both floating in the air in his office. In floats the nurse, and in no apparent surprise asks the floating doctor if he could please sign a paper. He does, and she floats out the doorway.

You begin to reexamine your situation. Never, in all of your years of experiencing the 'fundamental physical reality' have you seen such rampant defying of the well-established laws of gravity. You now suspect that you are in some very long and complex 'dream', or, perhaps you are on stage in a nightclub and you are under hypnosis by some very good hypnotist. You certainly do NOT accept that what you are currently experiencing is 'within' the 'fundamental physical reality', so, your 'experiences' must somehow be taking place 'outside' of this 'fpu'.

You know this is possible, for you dream every night, and in these dreams you are not obliged, necessarily, to obey the laws of the 'fpu'. You understand quite clearly how in a dream you could levitate, and in that situation, it would be quite acceptable to you... IF you were dreaming.

Secondly, IF you were somehow 'locked into' your own 'personally perceived reality' and someone else was somehow influencing or forcing you into these experiences, this could be acceptable. You have seen hypnotist make people bark like dogs, and act in some way 'abnormal' to their nature. It is quite plausible that some hypnotist has you in his 'power', and he is making you 'think' all this, and soon he will wake you up and you will be onstage and everyone will be laughing at you... IF, you are hypnotized.

You also consider two other possibilities: 1.) You have gone totally insane, and the doctor is apparently part of your delusion, or, 2.) Peniel's proposition about "Orange Liquid and a trip through the Universe' is possible, but a very remote possibility (and you hope that it is not true!)

Now that I have spun you around a little, let us stop the merry-go-round and let you off. We return now back to reality (but which one?) I have a workshop on REALITY, and in it I cover the 7 'planes' of reality, how they differ, how they affect and effect us, etc. Perhaps, one day, you will take it.

Now, I have laid some groundwork, and perhaps spread ample fertilizer all throughout your brain, let us return to the physical universe, and The Matrix.


The TRUTH:
The 'fpu' (fundamental physical universe) is like a shadow, or a picture. It has a 'reality', but its reality is both transient and fleeting. It is not 'SOLID', nor 'sound'. The fpu is 'held in existence' in the mind of God as a 'thought'. Granted, this thought is exceptionally complex, and as 'time passes' this thought changes from 'moment to moment', but, each 'frame' is frozen, still, changeless, motionless, unique, and not maintained. If you take any given moment of 'now' and examine it in minute detail, you will find that nothing moves, nothing changes, nothing is movable or mutable. Each individual 'moment' of time is a separate and frozen frame in which what we call 'existence' is 'experienced'.

This is WHY you cannot breathe yesterday's air today. It is why the past is 'gone' and 'lost' and now exists ONLY as a memory. This is why the future exists only as a hope, a dream, a wish or desire. Think about this, the table you are sitting in front of, that was 'there' a moment ago, that table no longer exists! It is gone, forever. There is NOW a new table that exists is THIS moment, but, it is NOT the same table as was here a moment ago! Why does everything that exists, ONLY exist NOW? What happened to everything that existed 'before'? It is gone, and if it NOW has any existence, it is only in your 'memory' (your touchstone with the past.) The FPU can ONLY have its existence in the NOW.

MORE TRUTH:
If you examine matter, you will find that it is 'latent and stationary' energy. What appears to you to be that table in front of you is 'in essence' a whole bunch of molecules joined in a matrix, bound and joined by 'force fields' and the 'real stuff' is these molecules. In between these individual molecules is lots of nothing, space, emptiness. The reason it APPEARS to be solid and real to you, is that the energy that makes it up stays in the same three-dimensional coordinates as time marches on. i.e. The energy that makes up this table, stays right here in front of me as time marches on instead of zooming off away from me at light-speed. This is why I can apparently 'touch, see, taste, smell,' etc this table. It 'stays' here, relative to me, as time goes by. (In reality, you cannot 'touch' it, only the force fields of your hand's molecules interact with the force fields in the surface molecules of the table, and the apparent 'resistance' you feel makes you believe that you have 'touched' the table. This 'touching', in reality, is an impossibility.) We do, however, use common words like touch with a proper understanding that this is 'sensation' only. Many people actually believe they can 'touch' stuff!)

Now, the molecules are the 'real' stuff, of which this table and the universe is truly composed? No, each molecule is really a predetermined series of atoms in a particular arrangement, molecule is really just a 'term' we use to describe this arrangement of atoms. SO, atoms are the 'real stuff' from which the fpu is really made! Well, no, just as with the molecules, the atoms are very far apart from each other, and between them is nothing but force fields, and space - nothing. So, atoms it is? Well, no, because the atom is merely a term we give to a certain arrangement of a nucleus and a group of orbiting electrons, all that stay in the same three-dimensional coordinates as 'time marches on'.

Aha! These nuclei and electrons are thus the material of the fpu! Well, no, in actuality, each proton, neutron, and electron are actually made up of a series of quarks. These quarks are dimensionless points of energy locked together by strong bonds to form the sub-dimensional particles. The 'force-field boundaries of three quarks', for example, make up what we used to call a 'proton'. Each quark can be identified by its location, quantity of energy that it carries, its spin, its alignment, its color, etc. However, they are infinitesimal points, they have no physical dimensions. They are 'energy packets' that have certain characteristics, that when combined with other quarks, create all of the fundamental particles, of which everything else is made.

HERE is The Matrix. There is a 'grid' and upon this grid is marked each and every quark and its corresponding characteristics. Every force field that is created by this quark, or group of quarks is also noted on this grid. Each individual component built out of these quarks is also marked on the grid, each interaction of each force field from each and every quark, or particle, or atom, or molecule is also marked on this grid. This grid is therefore a list of points in space, their three-dimensional coordinates, and each packet of energy, where it is, which way is it going, how fast is it moving, how is it aligned, how is it spinning, what 'color' is it, what energy level does it represent, etc. until every detail about every 'thing' in the universe is now recorded on this grid, regarding ONE particular MOMENT of time.

Now, this 'moment' is indeed a very small division of time, so small that it is 'currently' immeasurable and undetectable, yet, it is finite! In addition to the 'physical grid' of the universe, which is the 'completee, whole, entire and accurate description of every individual piece of energy and all of its descriptive attributes; there is also another grid for all 'non-physical' energies. These are energies that exist is the fpu but that are NOT in physical form. Light, alpha waves, solar radiation, heat energies, etc. All energy 'packets' and their exact 'current' three-dimensional coordinates, their energy level, type, direction, speed, etc. and all the characteristics about these 'energy' packets is all also recorded on grid # 2. When these two grids are combined, then you have a fully integrated, accurate, and complet description of the entire fpu for that particular 'moment' in time. being as each of these characteristics about each and every 'thing' in the universe is listed, this is ONE FRAME, frozen and changeless, locked in time, in our universe.

(In truth, I must admit to you that there are 'other' things maintained on this grid also, but they would only complicate this discussion for now!)

Now, the next 'moment' comes along, and there is an entirely new "Matrix" built for that 'moment'. In this next moment, some of the numbers are different. This quark has 'moved slightly' from where it was last frame. This packet of energy (a photon) has traveled a short distance in space as it was coming from the sun to the earth. This atom has moved, ever so slightly in its entirety, as it is 'vibrating' with a certain 'heat index' of energy. This molecule, in its entirety, has now begun to split, for it is undergoing a 'chemical reaction' to break it down from water into hydrogen and oxygen. This 'next' frame of the frozen reality of the fpu of the NEW 'now' is almost identical to the last one, with the exception of those things in 'apparent' motion, especially those things in apparent motion at a very high velocity, such as photons traveling at the speed of light.

The Matrix, therefore, is the fundamental physical universe, as perceived in the mind of God, from moment to moment! Each new moment creates an entirely brand new fpu reality, and it 'appears' to be just like last moments, only now, there has been some 'apparent' movement. If you speed it up to our experiential scale, things appear to flow very smoothly, and some things travel along at apparently very great speeds... ALL ILLUSION! All maintained for us, by God, out of His love, so that we can 'have the experience' of what appears to be a 'normal life span' in which we are allowed to 'interact with others like us' in this same universe, for our benefit and enjoyment.

If you will: we human beings are the disembodied brains, The Matrix is the 'apparent' universe, God is the alien in the space ship, His mind is the computer in which this reality is created and sustained, for our benefit and entertainment

Two major problems with The Matrix scenario: 1.) because each 'slice' of 'now' is NOT infinitesimally small, but has a measurable 'time dimension' to it, then things within The Matrix cannot be allowed to 'move' within the Matrix at any possible speed. You MUST put a cosmic speed limit on the entire system, otherwise, something that was right here last frame, could be 'way the heck over there' in the next frame of 'now', and this will cause apparent 'jerkiness' in what is supposed to be a smooth flow of movement. Based on the actual size of the 'now' time-slice, the larger it is, the more restrictive will your 'speed limit' have to be in order that the beings 'experiencing inside' of this matrix will not be able to detect that there is 'jerkiness' or 'bumpiness' to what is supposed to be smooth and solid. The illusion of smooth motion and 'solidity' breaks down if one begins to perceive the Matrix on either too minute a level, or too 'fast' a level. So, there will have to be both a 'cosmic' speed limit that no 'thing' IN TIME can travel faster than, and also, 2.) a minimum discernible level so that the interior structure of the universe can not be know with 'certainty.'

Hence, let us make two rules (to start with) for this fpu: 1.) At a certain relative velocity (light speed), time MUST stop. Therefore, no one is allowed to perceive 'in time' beyond this speed limit, and this will safeguard the length of the time-slice; 2.) at a certain sub-dimensional scale, it will be impossible to know 'with certainty' where a 'thing' is. This will protect the fact that the Matrix, although quite complex, is indeed FINITE, and 'things' are only described down to a particular level of 'smallness' and no further. They will only be able to 'predict' based on relative terms, where a very small thing 'might be'. Hence, it will only be a probability, and never a measurable actuality.

We won't mind if the inhabitants of this fpu discover these things, because the two safeguards will guarantee that all they can do regarding those 'suppositions' beyond our two established limits, is 'guess and speculate'.

WHEW! I hope this doesn't generate a plethora of physics discussions, I much prefer to discuss Jesus and morality and sin and Adam and Ever, etc.

God is awesome!

And He's BIG too!

Tom

Peniel G.G.G.

Submitted:
Subject: